tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post2089275976824482124..comments2024-03-18T11:06:05.506-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: THAT PLACE IN BETWEENDavid Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-65150470135406671542010-06-19T15:17:00.466-04:002010-06-19T15:17:00.466-04:00Dear Mr. Apatoff,
I just came across your blog th...Dear Mr. Apatoff,<br /><br />I just came across your blog this afternoon and regret not having done so sooner. The illustrations you've chosen are wonderful and as an illustrator myself, I am familiar with many of creators of the work here, notably Sterling Hundley and Saul Steinberg. Thank you for spotlighting an artform that has had to struggle for legitimacy for way too long!<br /><br />Ilene Winn-Lederer<br />www.winnlederer.comaethereahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949261514657279784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-70153536327137539982010-06-16T00:44:05.525-04:002010-06-16T00:44:05.525-04:00Love is between ignorance and wisdom. Mediocre peo...Love is between ignorance and wisdom. Mediocre people are full of it. :-pAnonymousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-90549497484789459032010-06-14T19:21:28.706-04:002010-06-14T19:21:28.706-04:00Love it... where is that in between?Love it... where is that in between?Inked in Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02245318323375072494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-78492714483404009242010-06-13T13:58:40.048-04:002010-06-13T13:58:40.048-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Whit Brachnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727328490213975921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-91329260203793407802010-06-13T13:39:58.386-04:002010-06-13T13:39:58.386-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Whit Brachnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727328490213975921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-66435981345880174432010-06-11T14:11:09.625-04:002010-06-11T14:11:09.625-04:00"There are no eternal human truths. Humans ar..."There are no eternal human truths. Humans are not eternal. We didn't exist before about 200,000 years ago and quite possibly will stop existing at some point in the future."<br /><br />Pretty much the fear-mongering weltanschauung of Hitler in a nutshell, with the implication being that those who are judged to be destroying the planet must be destroyed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-85116628383220907342010-06-11T13:59:42.604-04:002010-06-11T13:59:42.604-04:00Just because humans aren't eternal does not me...Just because humans aren't eternal does not mean that truth is not eternal. Something can be true whether or not anyone is around to realize its truth. Granted, if humans would no longer exist, truths about them would be largely irrelevant at that point.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12767495940858849152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-31179183508129358712010-06-11T11:02:17.243-04:002010-06-11T11:02:17.243-04:00Kev said somewhere:
"The reason great works ...Kev said somewhere:<br /><br />"The reason great works keep hitting their mark generation after generation, era after era, is because they contain eternal human truths."<br /><br />There are no eternal human truths. Humans are not eternal. We didn't exist before about 200,000 years ago and quite possibly will stop existing at some point in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-6724963074722083792010-06-10T14:34:41.573-04:002010-06-10T14:34:41.573-04:00Kev,
Just came across some of your comic book wor...Kev,<br /><br />Just came across some of your comic book work (assuming you are THAT Kev Ferrara). Nice stuff.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12767495940858849152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-67056233329589341082010-06-10T14:09:00.077-04:002010-06-10T14:09:00.077-04:00Geriatrics are hot hot hot!
Truth (or truths) can...Geriatrics are hot hot hot!<br /><br />Truth (or truths) can be ugly, as well. <br /><br />It seems you're just saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder, which I think is accurate. Beauty is a word that defines an idea. I don't think something is necessarily intrinsically beautiful because for something to be beautiful, someone outside of it has to regard it as such--whether it be the laws of physics, a painting, or a poignant moment in connection with nature.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12767495940858849152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-31617777151506402652010-06-10T13:55:58.583-04:002010-06-10T13:55:58.583-04:00Truth is an idea, which means it transcends the ph...Truth is an idea, which means it transcends the physical aspect of life where ugliness and pain reside. Ugliness and pain are facts that are incidental to physicality, not to the imaginative consciousness.<br /><br />Where biology most beautifully demonstrates function, it most closely resembles a pure idea and is beautiful.<br /><br />The fact that beauty and ugliness are a result of the vagaries of human perception does not negate the existence of beauty and ugliness. We arrive at such labels knowing full well these labels apply to human experience.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-6315008728031560072010-06-10T12:32:21.523-04:002010-06-10T12:32:21.523-04:00Ray, I guess you like to date senior citizens.
Se...Ray, I guess you like to date senior citizens.<br /><br />Seriously though, I don't agree that truth is beautiful. Truth can also be ugly or painful but even then it's only a projection by the observer. The laws of physics or biology aren't really beautiful. Someone may find them beautiful but that's really just a psychological reaction to having uncovered something that they were formerly ignorant of. Relief of anxiety or an increase in anxiety is primarily what causes us to label things "beautiful" or "ugly".Anonymousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-46993103651602161712010-06-10T12:24:51.582-04:002010-06-10T12:24:51.582-04:00As to the BBC documentary, I enjoyed it very much....As to the BBC documentary, I enjoyed it very much. <br /><br />I think one thing it makes clear to me is that art is humanity's aesthetic mirror on itself. Looking at the art from whatever period, you gain understanding of what people thought and believed about themselves and the world and also what they valued. <br /><br />I think the question of what is art might be less important than what is our art saying about us...and do we like what it's saying. I don't like much of what art said about us for much of the 20th Century up until now (with exceptions noted, of course). I think Roger Scruton has a valid point when he discusses the seeming self-loathing, belittling and debasing aspect of much of modern and post-modern art. Canned shit is hardly a profound statement about the world, and it's probably not meant to be (unless you read a duped art critic who will prattle on at length about its subtleties and meaning). But, it is still a reflection about what the artist and a segment of society think about themselves and the world...and one thing is that they don't value it much.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12767495940858849152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-15799480475470551392010-06-10T12:12:52.970-04:002010-06-10T12:12:52.970-04:00Seriously, though...
Anonymouse said, "By th...Seriously, though...<br /><br />Anonymouse said, "By the time something comes to be called "beautiful" it has lost all its vigor and relevance....For something to reach the status of beauty it needs to have nothing objectionable about it. Naturally, cowards and deceivers will want to align themselves with beautiful things so they can appear as unobjectionable as possible without reallty doing anything to develop their character. I would never insult a work of art by calling it beautiful."<br /><br />I think you might be mistaking true beauty for sentimentality or shallow contrived beauty. The realization of truth is beautiful, not sentimental. To appreciate on a deeper level how the laws physics play out in the cosmos or how biology functions in its complexities can be said to see their beauty. Beauty in art (or life) doesn't always have to mean pretty or idealized. Even Scruton made passing reference to that in the documentary when he talked about Rembrandt showing the beauty of age in a face.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12767495940858849152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-41310737166734467162010-06-10T12:04:39.369-04:002010-06-10T12:04:39.369-04:00Anonymouse, I guess you just date ugly chicks.Anonymouse, I guess you just date ugly chicks.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12767495940858849152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-18556624153729358612010-06-10T00:51:00.678-04:002010-06-10T00:51:00.678-04:00Rob: It makes as much sense to worship ugliness as...Rob: It makes as much sense to worship ugliness as it does to worship beauty. That is, none at all. Worship of any kind is mindless self-indulgence, a perfect way to avoid really thinking about anything.<br /><br />>>>You continue to blithely plumb new depths of idiocy with no apparent understanding of how to link your utterances to observable reality<<<<br /><br />Where's your argument to justify this utterance? Oh, that's right, you didn't include one because you don't have one.<br /><br />etc, etc: "Doesn't Scruton then deserve some credit since he suggests a correlation between beauty and religion..."<br /><br />That would be like giving someone credit for discovering a link between ego-mania and opium addiction. Go ahead. Give him some credit, I don't see how it matters.<br /><br />"wouldn't the term "agnostic" more properly describe this person?"<br /><br />Agnostics don't believe they can ever know anything for sure so they aren't really interested in getting answers. An atheist may still want to know something but finds any answer that includes God unconvincing.Anonymousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-15850364931259490592010-06-09T18:33:36.853-04:002010-06-09T18:33:36.853-04:00That special was written for a mass television aud...That special was written for a mass television audience... ceartainly not the venue for a closely argued philosophical treatise on the nature and necessity of beauty. <br /><br />I would consult his books if you want the actual substance behind the rhetoric presented in the show.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-56645575014633581512010-06-09T17:54:08.862-04:002010-06-09T17:54:08.862-04:00i can't argue with Scruton's take on archi...i can't argue with Scruton's take on architecture... i too feel better around a pretty Georgian building than i do around a 60s concrete tower block.<br />but his idea of painting seems dangerously limited. nothing chaotic, troubling, confusing, wretched or monstrous is allowed because those things are deemed<br />'ugly' or too much like real life. he completely avoids the fact that many dark horrific images can have their own kind of terrible beauty. horror is only allowed if it serves some sort of cautionary purpose.<br />he seems to see beautiful paintings as a sort of balm for healing the morally and spiritually wounded. while he seems well intentioned, i hate to imagine the kind of sentimental fluff that might be created in the service of such a vision.Laurence Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11988700485839219253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-77064782421346768922010-06-09T15:38:50.474-04:002010-06-09T15:38:50.474-04:00Anonymouse,
Doesn't Scruton then deserve some ...Anonymouse,<br />Doesn't Scruton then deserve some credit since he suggests a correlation between beauty and religion, even if one finds them both to have negative connotations?<br /><br />Also, I am a little confused by your description "an 'atheistic' personality with unanswered questions about life"; wouldn't the term "agnostic" more properly describe this person?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-2058324611867193912010-06-09T15:28:18.272-04:002010-06-09T15:28:18.272-04:00"Art is misused when we just look to it for a..."Art is misused when we just look to it for a temporary sense of relief from the things that annoy or distress us. ARt is really there for us to learn about ourselves. When we look at something beautiful or ugly, we are really looking at ourselves."<br /><br />Actually, it is fine if we look to the best art for a temporary sense of relief, because the best art will also tell us about ourselves (under the radar) in the process of allowing us to bask in its other world. There is always this kind of a moral component (truth is de facto moral) at work in the best art, which is why it ultimately refreshes, rather than depresses. <br /><br />What's that old saying... "He who rises from his prayers restored, has had his prayers answered."kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-57418803036907692672010-06-09T15:14:08.863-04:002010-06-09T15:14:08.863-04:00>>>Beauty is abysmally passé.<<<...>>>Beauty is abysmally passé.<<<<br /><br />Does that mean that, being a non-beautiful person, you are au courant? I suspect by your yardstick, Quasimodo would be leading edge.<br /><br />You continue to blithely plumb new depths of idiocy with no apparent understanding of how to link your utterances to observable reality.Rob Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587811799010051018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-75614545731875839772010-06-09T14:52:57.510-04:002010-06-09T14:52:57.510-04:00etc, etc: I wasn't thinking about religion but...etc, etc: I wasn't thinking about religion but you're right, there's a strong correlation. People are drawn to both religion and beauty for a sense of being in touch with some greater power. It's no wonder then that religion makes use of art to seduce and mesmerize those who are incapable of independent thought. Oscar Wilde was wrong, art is actually extremely useful, even if you're not particularly religious or spiritual, in fact, an atheistic personality could be more susceptible to it because all his unanswered questions about life might appear to have a resolution in the realm of beauty. <br /><br />anonymous: I am familiar with Rackham's work and was somewhat obsessed with him when I was younger. But the "beauty" I saw in his work never came without a sense of anxiety. That I could be so enchanted by his masterful depictions of lusty nymphs and vengeful gods forced me to take stock of myself and my motivations in life. Looking back, it was actually pretty educational, but I had to look past all the superficial prettiness of it all first.<br /><br />I wasn't using art to come to Scruton's hopelessly bland and inane conclusion that "life is worthwhile". Worthwhile or not, we are alive and are forced to act. Art is misused when we just look to it for a temporary sense of relief from the things that annoy or distress us. ARt is really there for us to learn about ourselves. When we look at something beautiful or ugly, we are really looking at ourselves. We are using no one else's curiosities, desires, or prejudices to interpret it but our own.Anonymousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-16054006800746536062010-06-09T12:15:44.872-04:002010-06-09T12:15:44.872-04:00"Beauty is abysmally passé"
you should ..."Beauty is abysmally passé"<br /><br />you should print that on t-shirts and sell them to chic boutiques.Laurence Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11988700485839219253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-25040790441192974212010-06-09T11:59:10.680-04:002010-06-09T11:59:10.680-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-37817673006655914732010-06-09T11:46:52.711-04:002010-06-09T11:46:52.711-04:00may i suggest you looking into an illustrator call...may i suggest you looking into an illustrator called Arthur RackmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com