tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post2959033532207160647..comments2024-03-28T13:34:12.139-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: ONE LOVELY DRAWING, part 33David Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-83633565080817872782012-09-21T00:49:33.769-04:002012-09-21T00:49:33.769-04:00Wow - I can't believe I didn't know Drucke...Wow - I can't believe I didn't know Drucker ever did a daily strip. Then I looked at it and understood why I'd never heard of it. THAT'S what you want to hold up as an example of superior art? It looks more like the work of an art student influenced by Drucker.<br /><br />You're certainly entitled to you personal opinion regarding Trudeau, but your assertion that you're basing it on some sort of objective criteria such as "line" or "draftsmanship" seems clearly belied by facts.<br /><br />I collect comic and cartoon original art. I see lots of forgeries, some of which are almost impossible to determine as such except by examining provenance. Schulz art, Watterson art, and Larson art, for example, is not too tough for a talented artist to duplicate pretty convincingly, and such forgeries show up (and sell) on eBay and at auction with depressing regularity.<br /><br />I have yet, however, to see a Trudeau forgery (from his post-sabbatical period) that could come close to fooling even a casual fan. That's because his style, "eccentric" though it may be, is not at all easy (in fact, I'd say almost impossible) to duplicate.<br /><br />Now, you may not personally like his art. I myself am left cold by the work of such artists as Frank Frazetta, Neal Adams, Windsor McCay and Alex Raymond. But I would never assert that they lack artistic skills.<br /><br />I think what Trudeau accomplishes on a daily basis is amazing. After his sabbatical he basically reinvented the visual vocabulary of the newspaper strip. <br /><br />And by the way, if his "monotone line" irks you, remember that he doesn't ink the strip. Check out some of his pencils in: <br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/Doonesbury-G-B-Trudeau-Brian-Walker/dp/0300154275/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1348202652&sr=8-3&keywords=gary+trudeau<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-85914785616687432842012-09-20T14:36:35.799-04:002012-09-20T14:36:35.799-04:00Anonymous, I wasn't trying to go out of my way...Anonymous, I wasn't trying to go out of my way to slander Trudeau or demean his great accomplishment. I was just trying to speak soberly about his strengths and weaknesses. He does not have to be Mort Drucker (who did draw a daily strip, Benchley) or Jack Davis or Wally Wood. It's fine if he wants to be Trudeau and draw in his own eccentric style. I would just say that personally I don't find much in that style. All of his brilliance seems to be invested in the script. For me, his line is a monotone, with no variety or sensitivity or character. It lays down a mark, like a rapidograph line, sufficient to convey where one shape ends and another begins, but it conveys none of the information-- or poetry-- that better artists convey. His compositions strike me as serviceable, at best-- I don't see any adventure or creativity or design, the way you'd see from artists who spend time thinking seriously about such things. Colors are the same. He takes a lot of shortcuts (such as drawing the outside of the White House, or drawing a feather floating in the air) that are common to people with poor drafting skills. I am not asking for "realistic" drawing-- there are plenty of strips with simplified, eccentric figures and faces (Gary Larson's Far Side, Jim Unger's Herman) that I would say are wildly successful. Trudeau's are not among them, as far as I am concerned. <br /><br />I would not mind unloading "horrible" Trudeau original art, except the strips have market value because of the "brilliant" Trudeau content.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-29428568656908725992012-09-20T13:44:49.717-04:002012-09-20T13:44:49.717-04:00Okay, this thread is almost two years old and prob...Okay, this thread is almost two years old and probably no one will ever read this, but I have to step in and say "WTF?"<br /><br />Please tell me what daily cartoon strip is better looking than Doonesbury? What current daily cartoonist puts more thought and effort into the composition, lighting, and artistic flow of each strip?<br /><br />What other daily strip has evolved visually so much over its run?<br /><br />Was Peanuts better looking at the end than it was in the beginning? Calvin & Hobbes? <br /><br />No, Trudeau is not Mort Drucker. But Drucker didn't draw a daily strip. And Drucker, like Jack Davis, Wally Wood, and most other lionized cartoon artists I can think of, got lazier and sloppier over the years - not better in any way. <br /><br />But if anyone disagrees and would like to unload some "horrible" Trudeau art to me at reasonable prices, please let me know. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-13439291790848156042010-12-09T13:26:53.409-05:002010-12-09T13:26:53.409-05:00I just bought his book but before that was looking...I just bought his book but before that was looking at his drawings on internet and stopped at this one, called my 10-year-old son over and said..."look at this, it's a caricature, and it is also a Beautiful drawing..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-46187370201082728422010-11-14T03:43:14.684-05:002010-11-14T03:43:14.684-05:00One explenation for the disappearance of craft in ...One explenation for the disappearance of craft in art was given in an article by a Dutch columnist last week in the NRC newspaper. Describing the history of art, he said that art had always been sponsored by those in power and therefor was used to show the benefits of 'working hard'. In music, the abillity to do intricate scales was promoted and overall 'excellence' was most important. Then artists got a bit bigheaded and started making their own agenda, trying to get free from 'the man' and started celebrating the opposite, the benefits of wild freedom, of the unskilled and impulsive, which lead us to the situation we are in today. The point of his article was, that because of that, today the only standard which is left is 'that which is liked by most people'. Art is not only what sells, but even worse, what the majority of the people sees as art. Even there all possibillity for progress has been cut off.Ger Apeldoornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03633862833036214748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-56764719469910870482010-11-09T23:46:44.986-05:002010-11-09T23:46:44.986-05:00Slightly off topic:
I thought you'd be intere...Slightly off topic:<br /><br />I thought you'd be interested to know that Disney's coming out with a Pooh movie that's not 3D or computer-generated. According to the news, it's gonna be hand-drawn; so how about an insight on that? :-)<br /><br />http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap.org/first-look-disney-going-old-school-with-new-pooh-apAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-24071497854740917192010-11-04T17:10:09.968-04:002010-11-04T17:10:09.968-04:00download Coldplay The Scientist<a href="http://www.kaskus.us/blog.php?b=56215" rel="nofollow">download Coldplay The Scientist</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-14694945083164033802010-10-24T08:19:24.911-04:002010-10-24T08:19:24.911-04:00hi there
I really fancy your blog
nice stuff
feel...hi there<br /><br />I really fancy your blog<br />nice stuff<br />feel free to check out mine:<br /><br />http://mondorama2000.blogspot.com/<br /><br />(Mondorama 2000 is dedicated to vintage colour illustrations taken from french childrens encyclopedias (1950's to 1970's)<br /><br />hope you like it<br />best<br />CH2PCH2Phttp://mondorama2000.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-31437673423085164902010-10-22T17:33:42.325-04:002010-10-22T17:33:42.325-04:00Hear hear!Hear hear!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-3245752147709051672010-10-20T12:05:17.153-04:002010-10-20T12:05:17.153-04:00nice blog.............and your art is verry good (...nice blog.............and your art is verry good ( perfect )kocak konyolhttp://kocakkonyol.co.cc/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-52377807880977007982010-10-20T11:57:08.277-04:002010-10-20T11:57:08.277-04:00art that you show the really very beautiful and ey...art that you show the really very beautiful and eye-catching, and the art show I'm sure you have a high price if you want to make it as your money-producing machine.<br />And I really salute you for your art show in your blog.<br />I hope you respond to my comments, for your attention I thank you and good luck.Jackie Evanchohttp://www.jackieevanchos.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-38492187376741938022010-10-20T11:31:36.081-04:002010-10-20T11:31:36.081-04:00Ciao, Ed-- I love those old Italian masters too. ...Ciao, Ed-- I love those old Italian masters too. My sister married an Italian (she went to Florence on her junior year abroad and fell in love with a really cute guy...) and I use that as an excuse to get over there to see those Italian masters every chance I get.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-61694054880835996682010-10-20T10:16:29.792-04:002010-10-20T10:16:29.792-04:00Tom-- I agree!
Kev Ferrara-- I would only add Do...Tom-- I agree!<br /><br />Kev Ferrara-- I would only add Dorne to your list of Rockwell, Davis, and Drucker as the top artists who understand how to draw character and personal flavor. I agree with you that de Seve is definitely in that tradition. <br /><br />As for your question, "Is the quality of an artwork in any way connected to its profundity?" I assume you mean the profundity of its subject matter, as there are many ways a picture might be visually profound. While I think that form and content are different, I am not sure that you can ever separate the two entirely. That is one of the special challenges of illustration, which is more tied to content than other art forms. I suppose illustration can be elevated or lowered by the subject that it illustrates, but I have seen brilliant pictures of laundry detergent, brilliant in spite of--not because of-- its subject matter.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-75273249526931372702010-10-20T09:36:12.689-04:002010-10-20T09:36:12.689-04:00Jesse Hamm and Anonymous-- thanks for the addition...Jesse Hamm and Anonymous-- thanks for the additional input on Trudeau's working habits. I certainly didn't mean to slander him. I already admired his brilliant humor, and now I also think better of him from a manual labor perspective as well. At this point in his career he could easily afford to staff Doonesbury the same way Baldo Smudge staffed his strip. It is to Trudeau's credit that he does the physical drawing.<br /><br />Having said that, I don't give him much artistic credit for those drawings. They are so lame, I would almost think better of Trudeau's personal artistic talent if the strip was being drawn by a ghost artist. <br /><br />As Anonymous suggested, I went back and took a look at the arc of Doonesbury. It seemed to me that the drawings in Doonesbury have gained a lot of certainty: the line is more confident, the word balloons are much stronger, and Trudeau has now added silhouettes and close ups to his tool kit. And printing technology now permits gradations and shadings in color. However, I personally don't see much progress in the quality of the drawing. The linework seems no more sensitive or insightful or varied or descriptive than it was in the 1980s. The compositions and designs don't seem any stronger. There are no signs of any great advancement in technical drawing skill-- perspective, anatomy, etc. There is no visual mood or personality conveyed-- for example, no great vitality of line, no strong graphic opinions (the way Trudeau's words convey marvelously clever and strong opinions.) Doonesbury in the 1970s was more scruffy and amateurish, but Doonesbury 40 years later seems to me to be like Archie comics, flat and repetitive stencils of characters.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-73282444469004963112010-10-20T08:01:03.929-04:002010-10-20T08:01:03.929-04:00Dear David, thanks for your blog.
Im writing from...Dear David, thanks for your blog.<br /><br />Im writing from Italy, where I noticed that the trend now amongst many young illustrators (children books, magazine editorials etc)is to go for very simple, very stilized figures,with big round heads and usually floating in some metaphisical context, engaged in activities such as embracing big hearts and so..<br /><br />These illustrations are supposed to please kids and fill adults with a sense of poetry, but for me they are just one dimensional,self explanatory and show limited skills.<br /><br />I 'll rather have Gustave Dorè or Heath Robinson and the works of the old Italian masters!!!<br /><br />Ciao, EdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-17689544258629721992010-10-19T23:57:34.234-04:002010-10-19T23:57:34.234-04:00Trudeau writes and pencils the comic strip himself...Trudeau writes and pencils the comic strip himself on an unusually tight deadline, and it's inked by a long-time assistant. No one would say Doonesbury is the best drawn strip out there, but if you think Trudeau has not made huge strides in its draughtsmanship, you really ought to go back and look at the arc of his career.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-19467383935293551162010-10-19T23:54:31.003-04:002010-10-19T23:54:31.003-04:00Love de Seve. Such a natural ability to capture ch...Love de Seve. Such a natural ability to capture character, much like Rockwell, Davis, and Drucker.<br /><br />I think Doonesbury could increase its regular dose of irony ten-fold if it started looking more like Hagar. <br /><br />Is the quality of an artwork in any way connected to its profundity?kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-238552494406745652010-10-19T21:44:01.641-04:002010-10-19T21:44:01.641-04:00Hi David "However, I think we need to guard a...Hi David "However, I think we need to guard against our tendency to believe that art about a serious subject matter is somehow superior to art about a light hearted subject matter."<br /><br />I agree, I don't think the subject matters that much at all. A really good draughtsman can make anything interesting. If it were the right subject that made the art, being an artist would be an easy task. It is how the subject is developed, that is what grabs our attention and where the power of art resides. Fragonard, Boucher and much of France’s art has dealt with lighthearted subjects with great artistic power. Or as Henry James said of Sargent, he can make a shirt collar interesting.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04641223414745777056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-87171873237872476642010-10-19T15:49:58.289-04:002010-10-19T15:49:58.289-04:00From the Doonesbury site:
"Trudeau writes t...From the Doonesbury site: <br /><br />"Trudeau writes the strip alone, and then does tight pencil drawings. The drawings are then either shipped or faxed to his assistant Don Carlton, who traces over Trudeau's finished drawings in ink. The rumor that Trudeau no longer draws the strip was started by Entertainment Weekly. When the magazine subsequently learned that the writer of the piece had wildly exaggerated Carlton's role, it printed a retraction and apology. By then, of course, the damage had been done,...." <br /><br />(Trudeau could be lying, of course, but the track record of anonymous experts inclines me to give him the benefit of the doubt.)Jesse Hammhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02253641550766389238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-20696742212114030602010-10-19T15:26:24.937-04:002010-10-19T15:26:24.937-04:00On the subject of Garry Trudeau, an extremely know...On the subject of Garry Trudeau, an extremely knowledgeable source contacted me off line to say he believes Trudeau now hires somebody else to draw Doonesbury for him. That would certainly make sense economically, and would also be consistent with the notion that Trudeau's heart is not in the drawing part of the job.<br /><br />If this is the case, Doonesbury's failure to evolve artistically would not be the result of Trudeau's lack of peresonal growth but rather his failure to update the specifications on the contract with his ghost artist.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-31588422415097861432010-10-18T19:26:24.216-04:002010-10-18T19:26:24.216-04:00Anonymous, I understand-- and even agree with-- yo...Anonymous, I understand-- and even agree with-- your general point. In this particular case, de Seve was illustrating a story by Mark Twain, which called for a folksy treatment. I am sure that if de Seve were illustrating the Last Judgment for a chapel wall centuries ago, he would have adopted a different approach.<br /><br />I adore Kollwitz's work, just as I adore Michelangelo's work, and I have written about both of them in fawning prose on this blog. However, I think we need to guard against our tendency to believe that art about a serious subject matter is somehow superior to art about a light hearted subject matter. Kollwitz's graphic work is powerful in part because she lived and worked in hellish circumstances and her pictures are dark and brooding and filled with shadows. But in my opinion there are pictures of "little birds" out there that are every bit as creative and lovely and important and talented as Kollwitz's art. You can find them in Picasso, in Hokusai, in Ronald Searle. It would be a mistake, I think, to discount the work of Disney or de Seve as something less than "serious" art just because their subjects don't have serious expressions on their faces.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-36399297826816081852010-10-18T18:02:50.376-04:002010-10-18T18:02:50.376-04:00I mean, whatever the relative merits of de Seve co...I mean, whatever the relative merits of de Seve compared to the giants of drawing, I'm not sure a Disneyesque drawing is the best argument for good old-fashioned quality draughtsmanship. (Is there a non-sexist word for that?)<br /><br />I like the drawing of Kaethe Kollwitz for example. She can draw "correctly" but is also all about feeling - real, powerful human feeling, not kitsch little birds and violins.<br /><br />If anyone contemporary is doing something comparable to Kollwitz, I'd be happy to hear names...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-39561538131910658582010-10-18T17:49:11.792-04:002010-10-18T17:49:11.792-04:00I don't advocate ossification.I don't advocate ossification.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-13302017541929086962010-10-18T17:31:32.671-04:002010-10-18T17:31:32.671-04:00Anonymous-- I agree that de Seve is not in the sam...Anonymous-- I agree that de Seve is not in the same league with Michelangelo.<br /><br />However, before we become too ossified in our thinking, I would note that Michelangelo had some bad drawing days like everybody else (despite the fact that he destroyed as many of his reject drawings as he could) and I would prefer my favorite de Seve drawing to my least favorite Michelangelo drawing.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-28319579386260878892010-10-18T16:24:39.566-04:002010-10-18T16:24:39.566-04:00This drawing is nice but it's too sentimental ...This drawing is nice but it's too sentimental to lose Michelangelo any sleep.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com