tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post3757537069729565801..comments2024-03-28T22:57:07.128-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: KERRY JAMES MARSHALLDavid Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-54192981442430247372012-08-21T01:41:14.328-04:002012-08-21T01:41:14.328-04:00Sarah L-- I believe that Mr. Marshall's work &...Sarah L-- I believe that Mr. Marshall's work "speaks" to you and "moves" you, but it would help me and perhaps others if you could explain more about why. What makes his message of "community and legacy" any deeper or more profound than anyone else's? What is it about his execution that puts him in the same category with the all time greats?David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-25044203384710761602012-08-20T19:50:28.883-04:002012-08-20T19:50:28.883-04:00I love his work. Not all work is memorable, but hi...I love his work. Not all work is memorable, but his work speaks to me. I saw a show of room sized paintings at the Santa Monica Art Museum about a decade ago. I still feel moved by it and have been intrigued ever since. There is room in the world for every art, but Kerry James Marshal's stands out as honest, and contemporary painting with a deeper message, that of community and legacy. I respect what he is doing and I applaud.Sarah Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05194255931717745276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-81269081300713861242010-04-12T15:47:33.006-04:002010-04-12T15:47:33.006-04:00LACMA just posted a new interview with Kerry James...LACMA just posted a new interview with Kerry James Marshall where he talks about growing up in LA, and how he would go see the Veronese paintings at LACMA and think about being an artist. http://lacma.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/community-stories-kerry-james-marshall/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-45010343916960799332010-01-14T23:53:18.913-05:002010-01-14T23:53:18.913-05:00Really excellent blog. I am also an Artist and lov...Really excellent blog. I am also an Artist and loved your blog very much.<br /><br />Thanks..Kerry Fineartshttp://www.kerryfineart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-16605937854536432342009-11-08T11:28:28.907-05:002009-11-08T11:28:28.907-05:00Art, and the accompanying criticism thereof, has a...Art, and the accompanying criticism thereof, has always been subjective. What is a genius, or who is or isn't one, also subjective. And recent visits to several Modern Art Museums confirms in my mind, that so-called "quality" is not the defining measure for merit.<br /><br />There is a New York Street artist that sells his work, of all places, on eBay. No McArthur award, no major galleries representation, by what are the traditional valuation methods he's a nobody. Yet, I and others around the world marvel at the provocative genius of what this nobody creates.<br /><br />Kerry James Marshall deserves the recognition given to him, because in the opinion of the awarding organization, he's a creative genius. Those of differing opinion feel free to bestow an award of their own elsewhere.<br /><br />Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And for me, it doesn't get much more Black and White than that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-72733537788130653082009-04-29T07:49:00.000-04:002009-04-29T07:49:00.000-04:00Strange to to my white mind is also the current be...Strange to to my white mind is also the current beatrification of bpp hateartist Emory Douglas. But then some of his stuff is at least very powerful, which I can not see here with this Marshall guy. But if somebody wants to give him his hard stolen cash?<br />Don't we have enough problems to cope with the work of real artists like Romare Bearden or Ronald B. Kitaj, even R Smithson and R Schwarzkogler? <br />And then there are the tons and tons of perhaps even more interesting, "more human" 3rd or 4th or even nth rank artists like Manny Farber or Brion Gysin and probably every traditional japanese or chinese kalligrapher that ever lived...Any regard for the "ruling art" world seems to be just such a waste of timeralfdhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-71941058629418684272009-03-26T04:12:00.000-04:002009-03-26T04:12:00.000-04:00It's total crap. Plain and simple.If he wants to b...It's total crap. Plain and simple.<BR/><BR/>If he wants to be compared to the great Renaissance masters, he needs to sculpt and paint at their level first, and then he can weave in his cultural factoids as he pleases.<BR/><BR/>Until he does that, to imply that he is of their level with regard to his race is to say that, in the black community, the level of "greatest" and "master" is his level, which is at best terrible.<BR/> <BR/>As a student of art and an art student, I deal on a regular basis with "bad art." I have no idea who pins the drawings and paitings to the walls of the giant art studio building at my university, nor do I care: race, gender, political affiliation - these are the crutches and labels of the unskilled. The pieces must speak for themselves: if I recognize a particular kind of brushstroke or style, that is one thing, especially if it contributes to the pieces' quality. Contrastingly, if it is vital to the quality of illustration in a given image that I know the author's biography offhand, then it is garbage, not a piece of art worth my time, ever. <BR/><BR/>And as far as I'm concerned, that rule is black and white.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-26784182648424841662009-03-13T09:24:00.000-04:002009-03-13T09:24:00.000-04:00josspaddock, I always have a hard time identifying...josspaddock, I always have a hard time identifying art that is NOT conceptual on some level. Usually when people insist that conceptual art is a separate subcategory of art, they do it to demean the role of technical skills, saying "Technical skill is just in service of concept." If the concept is great, that doesn't bother me-- there's no single formula for a successful work of art, and a great concept can certainly offset poor technique-- but I find nothing terribly profound or creative in Marshall's concepts. Some of them are mildly clever, the way that drawings in Simplicissimus or MAD magazine migt be, but the technical skills aren't nearly as good.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-68463608639421902772009-03-12T04:28:00.000-04:002009-03-12T04:28:00.000-04:00Okay Marshall is a conceptual artist plain and sim...Okay Marshall is a conceptual artist plain and simple. Technical skill is just in service of concept. I would have to study his work in greater depth to pass judgement on the quality/brilliance inspired nature of his conceptual aspects, but from what I can tell especially by the reactions here, he's um kickin ass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-28704941518952358252009-03-03T17:38:00.000-05:002009-03-03T17:38:00.000-05:00Rob, good call on Pinkney. Amazing artist and pret...Rob, good call on Pinkney. Amazing artist and pretty underrated (or under reported).kenmeyerjrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01135259184687057130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-87354968903018727632009-03-01T08:45:00.000-05:002009-03-01T08:45:00.000-05:00...i am not necessarily defending marshalls work, ......i am not necessarily defending marshalls work, more his making lots of money from it. to question or analyze how and why he is paid so much leads to an argumentative quandry.<BR/>getting paid well for whatever you do is a puzzle most of us seek to solve.<BR/>river- to my point, how much Black Americana do you find in those "exhibits" at ruby tuesdays or t.g.i.f.'s?<BR/><BR/>regardless of anything else, the election of barack obama changes the paradigm of how Blackness, art and otherwise, is woven into the fabric of america.<BR/>D.H.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-56302411392736274002009-02-28T23:28:00.000-05:002009-02-28T23:28:00.000-05:00Rob: I'm glad you brought up Jerry Pinkney. His ...Rob: I'm glad you brought up Jerry Pinkney. His work on the Little Match Girl is so poignant it's hard to look at.Jack Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06003755708951409832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-21002538948624068022009-02-27T22:40:00.000-05:002009-02-27T22:40:00.000-05:00Even though all that's been said is a bit too accu...Even though all that's been said is a bit too accurate for the comfort of some, let me pull a Rodney King and say..."can't we all get along?"Rob Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587811799010051018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-84818925110079373572009-02-27T17:23:00.000-05:002009-02-27T17:23:00.000-05:00D.H. You mean mimetic, not illustrative. Illustrat...D.H. You mean mimetic, not illustrative. Illustration means a "making clear", as Thornton Oakley was fond of saying. Mimetic means mimicking the way nature looks in a more or less scientific way.<BR/><BR/>The use of the word "illustrative" to put down illustration as "mere academic drawing" or "pandering to people who like stories but can't be bothered to read them" is a political tactic well used by people who can't draw or paint well, write meaningful poetry, discern decoration or mimesis from metaphor, and/or dream beyond their assigned dreams. No doubt much illustration is "mere illustration", but the baby shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater.<BR/><BR/>Artists... ain't we a scrappy bunch! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-12533476526224266472009-02-27T13:15:00.000-05:002009-02-27T13:15:00.000-05:00I think you guys need to lighten up on Marshall. T...I think you guys need to lighten up on Marshall. Too much hostility .<BR/><BR/>All this stuff is market driven. If no one was willing to pay the amounts mentioned for his work this dicussion would be moot.<BR/><BR/>For every hack, there's someone with exceptional skill who makes equally stale and uninspiring work.Dominic Bugattohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12038691868661688196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-86530667655899462842009-02-27T11:26:00.000-05:002009-02-27T11:26:00.000-05:00Art is the skill of creating frames. Your challeng...Art is the skill of creating frames. Your challenge is meaningless, D.H. <BR/><BR/>In this case, people love the frame of 'black narrative' - even if there is nothing else to it other than that. <BR/><BR/>Beyond the frame there is the actual content, the layers, and so forth. <BR/><BR/>Marshall's work belongs along with the Americana you see up in Ruby Tuesday's or T.G.I. Fridays. A Frame for a buck. <BR/><BR/>To boot, it's 'edgy'. What more could hipsters want?Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-67111416274905643012009-02-27T09:07:00.000-05:002009-02-27T09:07:00.000-05:00...only the artist can inject racial clues in his ......only the artist can inject racial clues in his work, <BR/>can you detect race in a splatter of paint?<BR/>my point is, race had always been encouraged as subject matter for Black artists.<BR/>i remember during my college klimpt/schiele obsession a professor asked me why i did not draw Black models...shattering my naivete, i thought you could paint whatever you wanted!<BR/>this created a mini-complex about whether my imagery was "black enuff"<BR/>i think this happens to many young Black artists...it helps create a market of Black Jesus', angels, man with a banjoe, black fraternity surrealism, night at the jazz club, etc...<BR/>i don't think caucasian artist deal with this stigma,<BR/>i guess the question is, can you observe a piece of art without regard to the race/sex of the person who created it?<BR/>is race a necessary context in which to digest someones creation?<BR/>...as far as mr. marshall, for some of his work i "get it", in spite of his perceived lack of illustrative prowess...<BR/>King and the Kennedys over the fireplace, my grandmother had that.<BR/>D.H.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-32670081593486691432009-02-27T00:03:00.000-05:002009-02-27T00:03:00.000-05:00I guess I should have read the comments before I w...I guess I should have read the comments before I wrote mine...what's wrong with THESE people???<BR/><BR/>You guys, and I do mean guys, are waaaaaaaay too serious. Lighten up, willya?<BR/><BR/>~cpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-76359715951967367082009-02-26T23:58:00.000-05:002009-02-26T23:58:00.000-05:00BTW, I forgot to mention I nominated you for the 2...BTW, I forgot to mention I nominated you for the 2009 Bloggies. Should have mentioned it while they were still on so folks here that might not know about them would check it out and maybe nominate you too.<BR/><BR/>I didn't see you in the winner or runner up lists. <BR/><BR/>I didn't see you in the Times 25 best blogs list either.<BR/><BR/>What's wrong with these people????<BR/><BR/>~cpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-9421501819054546902009-02-26T20:55:00.000-05:002009-02-26T20:55:00.000-05:00I have to agree with Kev on this one. If you pour ...I have to agree with Kev on this one. If you pour money and adulation at something, others will pick up the cudgel and it will proliferate and grow. The reverse is also true. An example is the field of illustration. A few decades ago, the US Department of labor listed illustration as the highest paid profession, surpassing doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs. It was difficult to master.<BR/><BR/>Then came the Mac and Everyman was suddenly able to render with the best of them. Forget that he couldn't compose or tell a decent story, the surface was flawless. Soon, the old art buyers and art directors were replaced with younger designers who were brought up with Macs and, absent any filters of developed taste, it was to Hell in a hand basket. that the quality of the art has dropped is undeniable. What many of the remaining oldtimers complain about is that they are now paid the very same dollars they made when they were kid illustrators, just starting out forty years ago.<BR/><BR/>Competition is based on costs not quality and this is a good example of how economics affects quality. Sure, the devoted artist will want to produce quality but the pro is unlikely to produce an award-winning effort for peanuts.<BR/><BR/>Marshall's work shows that playing the race card has more than compensated for a dearth of talent and skill. The lesson is clear and it will attract others to do likewise.Rob Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587811799010051018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-91177881261716892522009-02-26T17:37:00.000-05:002009-02-26T17:37:00.000-05:00Please don't call comic book pages "lowly" David. ...Please don't call comic book pages "lowly" David. Any artform is only as good or as bad as its best and worst practitioners. So comic books can be transcendent as well as crap. And Mr. Marshall would in no way qualify as a second-tier comic book artist, or any tier comic book artist. He would not be allowed near a tier. He simply would not find paying work in the industry. Period. <BR/><BR/>And for those who think the large sums of money diverted to Mr. Marhsall don't matter, what you fail to understand is that every service that is encouraged monetarily proliferates. If you give money to bullshit, you get more of it. If you don't give money to quality, the people who could produce it don't bother. This of course assumes there is a finite amount of disposable income being spent on artwork at any given time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-69885486887786629982009-02-26T14:10:00.000-05:002009-02-26T14:10:00.000-05:00Not drawing per se, but further to DH's sugges...Not drawing per se, but further to DH's suggestions of other examples of social commentary, I love Kara Walker's silhouettes.<BR/><BR/>This story about her is interesting in light of this discussion:<BR/>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E2DB1139F930A15750C0A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=allAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-65217230249668224032009-02-26T12:27:00.000-05:002009-02-26T12:27:00.000-05:00I am always amazed (and often pleased) by the path...I am always amazed (and often pleased) by the path that these discussions take. I did not mention (or even think about) Marshall's race in my original post. My only concern was that he was one more mediocre artist who is held up as a "genius" for society to admire, when far superior artists are ignored. Sometimes bad artists achieve exalted status through cunning marketing (as did Kinkade or Schnabel); sometimes they attain it through the arrogance of the gatekeepers at the New Yorker or the opportunism of the mercenaries at the auction houses. Sometimes they attain it because they have a ghetto chic message which becomes the flavor of the month. I don't find any of these windfalls more odious than the others, I just care about the underlying art. <BR/><BR/>My view is that we should try to resist being distracted by the press releases and political agendas and conjurer's tricks of the art racket. We should keep our vision fresh and receptive to true quality wherever it may exist-- even on the lowly comic book page, or in a car advertisement, or on a cave wall. I, too, "have seen how difficult it can be for artists of real worth to become recognized." These people deserve defending, and one of the real joys of this blog is that I can defend them using intemperate language that they can't use on their own behalf. (I will add that many years ago it was also difficult for African art or Japanese art with real worth "to become recognized" in the west. In both cases, the underlying quality was there. And underlying quality is the focus of this blog.)<BR/><BR/>I don't have any problem with grouping art by race or gender or political message or medium or any other organizational device that is potentially illuminating. I don't have any conceptual problem with a gallery of feminist art or a museum of African art, any more than I have a problem with a museum of illustration art. But such groupings have to justify themselves by producing worthwhile insights about worthwhile art. If they simply fill a market niche or a political agenda, then I am not interested.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-26427516162415874772009-02-26T11:13:00.000-05:002009-02-26T11:13:00.000-05:00"a minority artist (or a majority, like women, who...<B>"a minority artist (or a majority, like women, who claims to be a minority) has their own ethnocentric or gender-centric museums and exhibits from which white males of European background are summarily barred. Can you imagine having a Caucasian Male show (the guys who made the bulk of Western art) from which people of color and women were excluded?"</B><BR/><BR/>I have no interest in defending Marshall's work, but I would disagree with this complaint. <BR/><BR/>In the fine art world, women are indeed a minority -- for every Helen Frankenthaler there are ten Pollocks, Rothkos, and Warhols -- and most of the latter are white. Excluding them from occasional shows hardly puts white males at a disadvantage.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, why care which race is more welcome in the Bad Painting Club? Like cancer, mediocrity is a disease which doesn't discriminate.Jesse Hammhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02253641550766389238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-53966635755476429892009-02-26T09:27:00.000-05:002009-02-26T09:27:00.000-05:00Are we talking about quotas..."let a brutha get pa...Are we talking about quotas..."let a brutha get paid for his art" is tantamount to racial quotas and set-asides. The field of Art has largely been a meritocracy -- the best rose to the top and their work was preserved, and all of the junk art of the centuries was largely discarded. With that attitude of quotas and the <I>illusion</I> of egalitarian society.<BR/><BR/>As for having "black" art on my walls I suppose that I do, in the sense that two of my partners were (coincidentally) black and I have some of their art on my walls. During the dashiki-wearing Black Pride days, one of my partners was confronted by a young, angry black firebrand who demanded to know, "what are you doing for your people." My friend just looked at the fool and said..."I didn't know that the artists were in trouble."<BR/><BR/>Out here in RealityLand, where have to make make our living with a brush and are only as good as our last piece, we don't get quota work. We identify with being artists. We have a lot more in common about the vicissitudes of composing for the printed page, meeting deadlines yet keeping the quality high and, most important to professional illustrators...getting paid fairly and on time (yes, we are ho's). The differences in race and background shrink in importance to the day-to-day realities of being a full time working artist.<BR/><BR/>Someone like Marshall could never hope to make it in the field of illustration. He simply hasn't got the chops. However, Fine Arts is a totally different bag and much of it swirls with politics and social engineering, so a minority artist (or a majority, like women, who claims to be a minority) has their own ethnocentric or gender-centric museums and exhibits from which white males of European background are summarily barred. Can you imagine having a Caucasian Male show (the guys who made the bulk of Western art) from which people of color and women were excluded?<BR/><BR/>In this society, turnabout is not fair play and that's why an incompetent artist with a soulful bio has found an audience willing to support his mediocre work. The reason I am exercised about people like Marshall is because I have seen how difficult it can be for artists of real worth to become recognized. And just because he makes money at it doesn't reflect on quality. If that were the case, McDonald's would be haute cuisine.Rob Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587811799010051018noreply@blogger.com