tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post7379237872458538165..comments2024-03-18T11:06:05.506-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: MENE, MENE, TEKEL UPHARSINDavid Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-56924490258382649502015-03-26T00:34:05.227-04:002015-03-26T00:34:05.227-04:00Harry Clarke, of course. I was even picturing them...Harry Clarke, of course. I was even picturing them in my mind's eye and couldn't call the name.<br /><br />http://harryclarke.net/geneva_home.htmllotusgreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04393867916489599891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-68080434628427912242015-03-25T23:56:24.057-04:002015-03-25T23:56:24.057-04:00David! -- Tired of *you*? Don't be silly!
Sho...David! -- Tired of *you*? Don't be silly!<br /><br />Should they not have been mentioned above, I would like to include as rejected, Duncan Grant's wondrous designs for the Queen Elizabeth shipping line, later to be (thank god) revived for popular slip covers by Laura Ashley. And the stained glass artist (whose name I frustratingly can't pull up from my brain or the internet) who, as I recall, was hired to design a huge and extraordinarily elaborate windows only to have those be rejected as well.lotusgreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04393867916489599891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-80707252649367719492015-03-25T08:35:01.570-04:002015-03-25T08:35:01.570-04:00lotusgreen-- Thank you, glad to be found again by ...lotusgreen-- Thank you, glad to be found again by you. I thought you'd tired of me long ago.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-14909311846122765252015-03-25T00:13:41.187-04:002015-03-25T00:13:41.187-04:00Beautifully done. Thank you. Glad to find you agai...Beautifully done. Thank you. Glad to find you again.lotusgreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04393867916489599891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-22647816808206162512011-08-20T10:37:07.957-04:002011-08-20T10:37:07.957-04:00interesting article , well worth the readinteresting article , well worth the readeuropean health insurance cardhttp://www.ehicapplyonline.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-60104349079176691342011-05-11T22:17:17.048-04:002011-05-11T22:17:17.048-04:00David,
I am 99% sure that the “archival footage”...David, <br /><br />I am 99% sure that the “archival footage” you are seeing of Brangwyn is of a sweet tempered actor at somebody’s cottage reading the lines from an old interview with Brangwyn. Google a bit and you will find real photos and you will see the real deal.<br /><br />The film scratches are tell tale signs of an after-effects type program and the clarity of the image negates the reality of the scratches. I recall in the text of The Decorative Art of Frank Bragwyn, it is mentioned in passing that Brangwyn could be profane at times and ill mannered by the standards of the time. <br /><br />The 57 minute dvd is available (linking suddenly not working) at the website indicated on the you tube teaser. <br /><br />I am warming to the Empire Panels as decorations, especially after seeing them in context in the teaser. But I only appreciate them intellectually, for their craft. When I see the Skinner’s Hall Panels, my heart sings and soars. A wholly different sort of experience. Do you happen to know if the Skinner’s Hall Panels have been printed in a nice way recently and all together? The only reproductions I have are from the 1920s and from the looks of the film, they are still in tip top shape.<br /><br />kevkev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-84667021487672805712011-05-11T18:27:22.366-04:002011-05-11T18:27:22.366-04:00Kev, what a terrific find! I assumed Brangwyn wou...Kev, what a terrific find! I assumed Brangwyn would be gruff and stentorian at that stage of life, and instead he was an impish, animated delight! ("Saucy girls, wot?") And I've gotta say, those Empire panels continue to impress me.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-56592305698990747652011-05-11T12:35:02.196-04:002011-05-11T12:35:02.196-04:00A teaser for a Frank Brangwyn DVD is here… Contain...A teaser for a Frank Brangwyn DVD is <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2SjXoTg0Sc" rel="nofollow">here…</a> Contains some more stuff about the Empire panels of interest.<br /><br />kevkev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-82464312975409148702011-05-03T01:40:38.452-04:002011-05-03T01:40:38.452-04:00It's difficult to believe that all are illustr...It's difficult to believe that all are illustrations!!!!!Graphic Designhttp://www.fotoclipping.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-82523009574268822032011-05-01T00:27:22.085-04:002011-05-01T00:27:22.085-04:00Maybe artworks have a life of their own. Everythin...Maybe artworks have a life of their own. Everything grows old and changes. Like Lipov suggests when is the artwork the most like what it is suppose to be. At what point in my life am I most truly representive of me?<br />Everything changes and everything disappears in the end. Like the beautiful sand paintings the Tiebitian monks make. Weeks of effort destroyed with one brush of the hand.<br /><br />I think Manet made a similar comment about his own work, something to the effect, that it needed to age before the tones and colors would truly harmonize.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04641223414745777056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-59239384718189497942011-04-30T10:44:54.340-04:002011-04-30T10:44:54.340-04:00I should point out that the handwriting I was talk...I should point out that the handwriting I was talking about was not Leonardo's brushwork, (his use of "sfumato" fairly well eliminates it anyhow.) But his composition, form, and drawing.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-37360675899090665532011-04-30T10:40:31.915-04:002011-04-30T10:40:31.915-04:00Lipov, I agree that these are fair questions to as...Lipov, I agree that these are fair questions to ask. <br /><br />Leaving aside the accuracy of the pre-photographic historical restorations (the stories of which we cannot really verify and could very well be exaggerated) those early artists who "restored" the supper still left us with a work that looks like Leonardo's work done in his classical manner. <br /><br />This is no longer the case.<br /><br />Which serves my point... that talented artists who have an appreciation of the artist can keep the art looking like art and keep the artist looking like the artist. With science alone at the helm, the mural is now a mere artifact. It is no longer an artwork.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-47320732222809130702011-04-29T23:38:46.933-04:002011-04-29T23:38:46.933-04:00Can you tell me what was left of the painting afte...Can you tell me what was left of the painting after 1700, when "Bellotti filled in missing sections with oil paint then varnished the whole mural" and after "Mazza stripped off Bellotti's work then largely repainted the painting; he had redone all but three faces when he was halted due to public outrage". And after French troops threw stones at the painting and climbed ladders to scratch out the Apostles' eyes and after Barezzi badly damaged the center section before realizing that Leonardo's work was not a fresco. <br /><br />Did all these "restorations" manage to preserve the artistic handwriting of Leonardo, while the last restoration didnt?Lipovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-79186704354641931372011-04-29T23:21:41.803-04:002011-04-29T23:21:41.803-04:00That is a shot from the hip, Lipov. The earliest p...That is a shot from the hip, Lipov. The earliest photos of Last Supper are very much like the photos taken in the 1960s. And these images share an important commonality: They show that the mural exhibits the artistic handwriting of Leonardo, which is now all but gone... another instance where the lack of sensitivity (a.k.a. Talent, a.k.a. Insight and Intuition) of restorers means they don't know what they don't know. A non-gardener inspecting an unkempt garden squashes underfoot more beautiful botanical life than he notices.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-56520720870724123322011-04-29T23:05:59.344-04:002011-04-29T23:05:59.344-04:00Kev, you have studied the earliest photos of the L...Kev, you have studied the earliest photos of the Last Supper. Which ones do you have in mind, the ones from 1726 right before the restoration, or the ones from 1770, right before another restoration? Or maybe those photos from 1901 right before another restoration? Apparently the painting was largely repainted at certain points in the history, so how exactly do you know what it looked like before the first restoration? I know, you are familiar with daVinci's other works and you think deeply about aesthetics, therefore you know which qualities the Last Supper should possess. But, isnt it possible that just like Brangwyn, he was not delivering his end of things? Isnt it possible, that what you liked about the painting was a layer of a second or third restoration on top of painting's original form?Lipovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-68832840174990991922011-04-29T20:29:50.328-04:002011-04-29T20:29:50.328-04:00Unknown unknowns are what I am talking about, Davi...Unknown unknowns are what I am talking about, David. Can't be reduced to analysis.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-66716888952981805232011-04-29T15:10:18.039-04:002011-04-29T15:10:18.039-04:00I usually like Brangwyn's work but these panel...I usually like Brangwyn's work but these panels look like overgrown kitschy confections.Suaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-80590467340445619002011-04-29T08:41:59.120-04:002011-04-29T08:41:59.120-04:00Demo-- thanks very much for the comments. I agree...Demo-- thanks very much for the comments. I agree that the artist and the patron both have some kind of proprietary interest in that wall. The problems seem to arise when their notions of their property rights overlap.<br /><br />Kenney Mencher-- as far as we can tell, your art history teacher was correct. It does appear that Whistler had an affair with Leyland's wife, which certainly complicates the lesson we learn from that event. She may even be the person who let Whistler back into the house to modify his mural when Leyland was away. Certainly she set tongues to wagging by leaving her husband shortly after the controversy over the mural.<br /><br />That's the problem with the more discreet era before sexting and People Magazine. Unlike Tiger Woods, Whistler never gifted us with explicit descriptions of his favorite positions for sex so we are forced to live with uncertainty.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-17602165690563994702011-04-29T08:27:34.812-04:002011-04-29T08:27:34.812-04:00Kev, I did not think for one minute that you were ...Kev, I did not think for one minute that you were one of the flat earthers. For one thing, you have demonstrated a poly-syllabic vocabulary on more than one occasion. <br /><br />In addition, I am hardly in a position to begrudge another man's rhetorical flourish from time to time.<br /><br />I think the questions you raise in your last comment are exactly the right ones to ask about the work done on the Sistine Chapel-- empirical questions that can be answered by chemists and physicists (not by Richard Schmid). I don't know the answers to those questions myself, although as I indicated earlier, my contacts in the conservation / restoration business tell me that the relevant questions were vetted thoroughly and there was little or no ambiguity in the answers. (If there is anyone out there who follows this science, please jump on in). <br /><br />If there was a missing patch of plaster where there were absolutely no clues left for science to work with, then I might turn, under careful, publicly promulgated constraints, to another artist whose taste and judgment were compatible with Michelangelo's, to fill in the gap. But other than that, I think protecting a work of art from the ravages of time and maintaining it in the condition closest to the artist's original intent is first and foremost a job for (good) scientists.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-57504887091775636912011-04-28T12:13:36.810-04:002011-04-28T12:13:36.810-04:00I regularly enjoy your blog and, since I am requir...I regularly enjoy your blog and, since I am required to nominate some worthy recipients as part of my own Stylish Blog award, I hope you will take my nomination of your own blog in good spirit and accept!<br /><br />If you are not sure what accepting requires of you, you'll find some clues at <br /><br />http://prometheusinaspic.blogspot.com/2011/04/blog-award-nominations-pass-it-on.html<br /><br />Thanks very much for all your work - much appreciated!<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />TonyMSFoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14470241067504971068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-34599844262960137152011-04-28T11:39:03.438-04:002011-04-28T11:39:03.438-04:00dendrochronological = dendrothermometrical (writin...dendrochronological = dendrothermometrical (writing too fast, too late.)kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-54303703939225769892011-04-27T13:30:57.133-04:002011-04-27T13:30:57.133-04:00the blog is very good and i enjoyed reading the ar...the blog is very good and i enjoyed reading the articles and looking at the images, thanks.red kitchenaid mixerhttp://kitchenaidprofefesional.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-79465353033688351392011-04-27T01:22:45.551-04:002011-04-27T01:22:45.551-04:00David,
Alright, if you want to get serious, I...David, <br /><br />Alright, if you want to get serious, I'll drop the high hat rhetoric (all in fun it was) and speak straight.<br /><br />I am a pro-science guy all the way. I love science, have profound respect for good science and I am utterly fascinated with biotech and theoretical physics, to the point of paying for the published articles of certain important papers and reading online journals like Cell Stem Cell when something hot comes up, etc. I was an AP student with Physics, Calculus, and Chemistry and I have plugged numbers into Navier Stokes in the original (inside baseball). I have quite a few friends in the biotech industry and, because of them, I know more about the problems of developmental biology and AIDS research than your average bear. And, obviously I have a profound interest in the science of perception and the nature of symbolic/conceptual thought.<br /><br />I believe the foundation of science is epistemology. I believe academicism is by its nature distant from the basic principles of epistemology, and therefore I have become wary of it. <br /><br />I am a steadfast evolutionist and find Intelligent Design to be garbage and nothing disgusts me more than people who demand equal time for it in the science classroom.<br /><br />Climate Science, in my opinion, is much more problematic, and should not be constantly grouped in with Evolution in my opinion, as some kind of theoretical fait accompli. And nothing PO's me more than people who, tended by the media thought herders, tell me I'm not allowed to think such a thought. As if I'm suddenly a racist, bible-thumping hillbilly for questioning whether dendrochronological estimates can even have a calculable margin of error, or whether ancient ice core samples can provide anything resembling a scientific estimate of the upper troposphere temperature in, say. August of 1420, or whether statistical smoothing is valid way of dispensing with such problematic particulars. Even the way the climate models use navier stokes and monte carlo similuation is dubious science to me. Anybody who thinks I'm anti-rationalist for thinking this doesn't understand epistemology. <br /><br />The forensic research into 500 year old paint layers encounters similar problems. Just as one quick thought: How do we know that one of the layers of grime wasn't a glaze of some sort that completely oxidized to the point that it seems like mere grime? How do we know that a glaze that was originally on there in 1541 wasn't utterly wiped away by a cleaning in 1650? Maybe a poorly done glaze simply dried, cracked and fell to the floor one bit at a time from 1600 to 1723. I can proliferate these surety-fogging kinds of questions endlessly.<br /><br />Now, I have no doubt the people involved in the Sistine chapel gave 100 percent of their effort to make that restoration happen. Maybe they have it right. I don't know. But I find the result unpleasant. (Yet I find Michaelangelo's sculptures to be the height of refined taste and harmonious beauty. I see a disconnect there.)<br /><br />Calling all those conservators who worked on the restoration "robots" was indeed just rhetoric for the sake of being provocative and getting a conversation going. If that offended anybody, I apologize. However, it is not rhetoric to say the conservators were not artists of the first rank and that more consideration was paid to science, and maybe commerce, in the process than art.<br /><br />As it happens, I am much more sure that the restoration of the Last Supper has been a travesty because I have studied the earliest photos of it rather intently and made the one to one comparisons of each bit for my own interests. I don't have the same interest in the Chapel so I can't crit its restoration point by point. The chapel, in my opinion, does look much better as a restoration than the last supper and no doubt it is better to have a loud chapel than no chapel at all, so bully for world culture!<br /><br />For what its worth, that's my true opinion the matter,<br /><br />Best,<br />kevkev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-39768716498046241932011-04-26T23:00:42.216-04:002011-04-26T23:00:42.216-04:00Kev Ferrara wrote: "Regarding restoration… I ...Kev Ferrara wrote: "Regarding restoration… I don’t trust academics about art at all. Period."<br /><br />Kev, I think you are overreacting to some of the annoying attributes of academic art experts. I agree that, at the margins, there is an art to science and a science to art, and it is extremely irksome when pseudo experts pontificate with scientific certainty in areas where subjectivity, judgment and humility are warranted.<br /><br />However, there is also an objective core to science that, I think, is not susceptible to your critique of "robots" and "famous tenured men." I think the vast majority of the Sistine Chapel restoration probably falls into that category. <br /><br />I should disclose that when I'm not doing this-- when I slip into that phone booth and change back into my Clark Kent costume-- I spend a fair amount of time working with science and technology, and in that capacity I spend more time than I would like dealing with stubborn factions that simply choose not to believe science because they don't like the results. <br /><br />It is 100% fine with me if people have an objective, empirical basis for challenging scientific conclusions; that is the heart of what science is all about. But my radar goes off when people start explaining that we should avert our eyes from the path of science and instead be guided by "the force." <br /><br />The antirationalist rejection of science, at least in the United States, has been depressing to watch over the past decade. In the same way that you write that an artist's sensibilities should trump objective test results, there are factions in the US who claim that divine inspiration trumps evolution, that the Bible trumps modern medicine (as with Terri Schiavo, AIDS, family planning, etc.), that people with the right kind of morals trump science on homosexuality or stem cell research... the list goes on and on. People disregard 90% of the science of climate change because they "feel it in their bones" that the minority science must be correct. Lately such people have been giving me the creeps even more than the "academics" you describe. <br /><br />I think that modern science, with its sophisticated imaging tools and its highly sensitive chemical analyses, can add value by telling us with great certainty whether layers of tallow and smoke and grime settled on the Sistine Chapel ceiling before or after Michelangelo's death. I think it can also tell us with great certainty when the restorers are down to the master's original paint level. If that is true, then I am content to restore the master's original intent and let the chips fall where they may (even if I think less of Michelangelo as a result.) <br /><br />If the science is not correct,I think it should be proven false on its own terms, not by unreliable intuition.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-71554905247769452622011-04-26T22:28:49.140-04:002011-04-26T22:28:49.140-04:00And R.Schmid for Sargent and J.Jones for Thomas De...And R.Schmid for Sargent and J.Jones for Thomas Dewing .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com