tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post7522145692604560741..comments2024-03-28T16:44:09.428-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: ARTISTS IN LOVE, part 14David Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-45490073394067243622009-02-02T02:43:00.000-05:002009-02-02T02:43:00.000-05:00I'm one of the many people who have worked on the ...I'm one of the many people who have worked on the Darger article at wikipedia. I've read a lot of his stuff, and I think people who ascribe sinister motives to his work are missing the boat. <BR/><BR/>That said, I'm curious as to a remark in the comments that Henry reported having <I>witnessed</I> Elsie's murder or even that he himself was Elsie. Other than an identification out of solidarity in an abuse survivor's experience, could you direct me to the source for your information? Thanks, BluejayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-60498694257880872562008-07-12T01:33:00.000-04:002008-07-12T01:33:00.000-04:00Truth is stranger/macabre than fiction!Lord Have M...<B>Truth is stranger/macabre than fiction!</B><BR/>Lord Have Mercy on the Souls of Darger (& Elsie)!<BR/><BR/>mark jaquette @ <BR/><A HREF="http://users.rio.com/bamm/illustrationISM/index.html" REL="nofollow">illustrationISM</A> & <A HREF="http://users.rio.com/bamm/BAMmGRAPHICS/index.html" REL="nofollow">BAMmGRAPHICS</A>illustrationISM....https://www.blogger.com/profile/11403974279736788715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-24186402945580984412008-07-04T21:31:00.000-04:002008-07-04T21:31:00.000-04:00Ummmm.... Adrienne, this post is not called "Repin...Ummmm.... Adrienne, this post is not called "Repin." I did a post on him a while back. But I agreethat Darger is strog medicine.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-68164191996017960942008-07-04T15:53:00.000-04:002008-07-04T15:53:00.000-04:00And frankly, why is this post called "Repin" ?? I...And frankly, why is this post called "Repin" ?? I was expecting Ilya Repin, and instead, I'm subjected to this. <BR/><BR/>Thank you very much for the opportunity to carry these awful images around in my head for the next few weeks. :(Adriennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07067397682954212319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-4190243956729943772008-07-04T15:46:00.000-04:002008-07-04T15:46:00.000-04:00I agree. I would not want to be living in this gu...I agree. I would not want to be living in this guy's head. It would not have surprised me if you said they found her in -his- back yard.<BR/><BR/>I understand your point of wanting to illustrate how someone can get obsessed with something, but I have to say there are better ways than putting up mutilation art.Adriennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07067397682954212319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-73707086259075028212008-06-27T05:29:00.000-04:002008-06-27T05:29:00.000-04:00i'm not sure who's talking about killers and thiev...i'm not sure who's talking about killers and thieves. As for sexual deviancy, i'm not trying to make anybody into anything. i'm just noticing. To obsess over anything is usually not healthy. Artists tend to obsess. To obsess over romantic feelings for a child... Hey, i'm willing to hope the best for the guy but his art says otherwise. It's not the search for true and innocent love that worries me, we all know that love is broken, so as a metaphor, a child makes sense. But the article and the artwork seemed to say that he took the metaphor to a bit of an extreme. i'm not judging the guy, i don't have that right, i'm just asking if we're careful in our choice of heroes?scruffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04127548900155916268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-24222005729438844952008-06-26T13:32:00.000-04:002008-06-26T13:32:00.000-04:00Wow, Henry Darger looks like he could be considers...Wow, Henry Darger looks like he could be considers one of the forefather of Pop Surrealism. I see work kinda like this on www.myartspace.com and www.juxtapoz.com all the time. Kinda sad that I never heard of him before reading this.<BR/><BR/>As for theories of him being a pedophile or whatever. It seems to me that with his work he may have thought he was empowering the youth. Or perhaps empowering himself by getting over the struggles of his own youth through the eyes of that photo and the struggle he created for her likeness in those images. If he is a pedophile I suppose everyone who gets ralled up over the Ramsey case is as well.<BR/><BR/>Why is it that so many people want to make killers, thieves, and sexaul deviants out of artists? Artists are no different than anyone else in my view. It is just that by putting their work out to be seen, or if it ends up seen later, it exposes more about them than what we might know of something who does not create art. Everyone is a bit funky. Visual artists are just easier to spot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-44655108018949485622008-06-17T09:19:00.000-04:002008-06-17T09:19:00.000-04:00I recommend the documentary "In the Realms of the ...I recommend the documentary "In the Realms of the Unreal" if you can get Netflix in Singapore. It's got ANIMATED versions of Darger's cartoon drawings.<BR/><BR/>Of course, you may have seen it already.<BR/><BR/>-thatphilguyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-90551244975458095172008-06-16T14:01:00.000-04:002008-06-16T14:01:00.000-04:00db, I would not disagree with your concerns. I th...db, I would not disagree with your concerns. I think all of these guys were obsessed in some way or another, and all of their obsessions were multi-faceted, with dark undertones and radiant overtones. This art has deep roots, and the artists are genuinely tortured.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-49022406222117863712008-06-15T01:09:00.000-04:002008-06-15T01:09:00.000-04:00Holy cow, this strikes me as a dressed up illness....Holy cow, this strikes me as a dressed up illness. Darger became fixated upon a photograph and a story, okay. But the ghastly fantasies of disemboweled little girls seems to me like a sexualized imagination legitimized by umbrage at the murder of the little girl. The guy seems to have gotten off on the idea, frankly. No thanks, David. But great detective work, as always.DB Dowdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15883323769581256192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-50055480426157428832008-06-14T00:45:00.000-04:002008-06-14T00:45:00.000-04:00e.l., these little snippets from the world move me...e.l., these little snippets from the world move me, so I am always glad to hear when they move someone else as well.<BR/><BR/>Alan, the people who think I'm an idiot never feel constrained by the fact that it has already been said by someone else, so I surely do hope you won't feel constrained by someone's prior compliment!David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1505705186027852752008-06-13T19:57:00.000-04:002008-06-13T19:57:00.000-04:00said before but here goes again.great post.said before but here goes again.<BR/><BR/>great post.amhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14574244380427478944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-68523500186244510622008-06-11T01:10:00.000-04:002008-06-11T01:10:00.000-04:00HiI've been reading your blog quietly for a long t...Hi<BR/>I've been reading your blog quietly for a long time now. But this precious post brought tears to my eyes.<BR/>Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-31431415376950269292008-06-10T21:50:00.000-04:002008-06-10T21:50:00.000-04:00c.b. and amin, Thanks for joining in.faymd1, than...c.b. and amin, Thanks for joining in.<BR/><BR/>faymd1, thank you especially for your service.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-84884657398090526592008-06-10T18:59:00.000-04:002008-06-10T18:59:00.000-04:00Great blog, glad I found it.Great blog, glad I found it.mdfayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01710106591374460964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-72236758204510059202008-06-10T14:01:00.000-04:002008-06-10T14:01:00.000-04:00Interesting post. I too in the beginning began to ...Interesting post. I too in the beginning began to question the whole pedophile angle however growing up in my teens in Puerto Rico I was exposed to many a Spanish tale of just that, man, young girl and the love between them. Although the stories never do state of a kiss or anything in that respect I also realize that for the era in which these books were written, 14 year old girls were already set for marriage if not sooner. Of course many thing have changed since then, but in context one can understand the relationship forged.<BR/><BR/>However as much as I understand I don't approve of it but accept in a historical and factual context.<BR/><BR/>Artists, regardless of what medium they work in, have always tended to be 'different" to what the average person would consider to be normal. Hell, even I myself although I don't wear any of the stereotypical artist wear or accessories but due to my tastes in music, film and art alongside my conduct and mood at times have been labeled as arrogant, weird, strange, demanding, inconsiderate, to name a few. I couldn't really pin the why but most of time I just feel a certain way and I make it known, that is may be abrasive to some and not others is not of my concern. And yet, I'm still a conservative in contrast to other artists.<BR/><BR/>Great blog by the way David. Would love to show you some of my current work for analysis.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07193570706818760305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-87897220781105685132008-06-10T00:29:00.000-04:002008-06-10T00:29:00.000-04:00Jack, I know there is an armchair psychiatrist who...Jack, I know there is an armchair psychiatrist who is going around claiming that Darger may have been haunted because he killed Elsie himself, but I personally think that is irresponsible. I wasn't trying to promote his wild theory. My point was that as Darger's mental condition worsened, he began to hallucinate that he witnessed her murder, and even that he was Elsie. His book is multi-faceted in this respect. <BR/><BR/>Scruffy, I understand your concern, especially with Darger (who drew hundreds of naked little girls with tiny penises-- possibly because he never saw a naked girl). But I think that for the most part, the only eros in these relationships is the eros inherent in courtly love, beatific love, and (yes, anonymous) sublimation and restraint. <BR/><BR/>Thanks, birdbirder, you are very kind.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-32514972514648856702008-06-09T19:27:00.000-04:002008-06-09T19:27:00.000-04:00wonderful, thanks!wonderful, thanks!birdbirderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05074806636150788904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-54219351793018650382008-06-09T16:52:00.000-04:002008-06-09T16:52:00.000-04:00An excellent post, but, and i apologize if these s...An excellent post, but, and i apologize if these seems flippant, but does it occur to anyone else that these guys were on a road to pedophilia in order to recapture the lost innocence of their own childhoods? Wouldn't be the first time artists and being unhinged were thought to be connected.scruffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04127548900155916268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-85474191906707615092008-06-09T15:27:00.000-04:002008-06-09T15:27:00.000-04:00It was an interesting film they made, which has be...It was an interesting film they made, which has been my sole contact with Darger's story, outside of a couple of web links. They tried to avoid coming to conclusions about his motivation or history, maybe to avoid sounding too sensationalistic, but I was getting the impression they were doing it because if he was thought to be a murderer, that might blight his chances in the mainstream art market (though improve them in others.)<BR/><BR/>Still, I'm seeing a lot of documentaries about oddball artists, or artists with strange lives, and it's sad to think that a good artist with perhaps an unremarkable life has less chance of getting his or her art talked about. <BR/><BR/>Mind you, they did Charles Schultz, who is pretty unremarkable, except for drawing one of the most influential comic strips of the 20th century, but the biography (and the depressing documentary) went a fair ways in presenting him as a monster of moodiness and neglect.Jack Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11202365155540203592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-40124407997478396082008-06-09T15:24:00.000-04:002008-06-09T15:24:00.000-04:00These women are all muses because the men were wil...These women are all muses because the men were willing to sublimate. Today men don't sublimate. They are just impatient assholes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1534921410466431052008-06-09T15:11:00.000-04:002008-06-09T15:11:00.000-04:00Thanks, a. kleon!Jack, Darger's story gets about t...Thanks, a. kleon!<BR/><BR/>Jack, Darger's story gets about ten layers creepier than this. It takes great restraint to write about him because there are so many fascinating, creepy aspects to him. But he is definitely worth following up on your own. (As his mental condition worsened, he claimed that he personally witnessed Elsie's murder!)David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-13873291450752314212008-06-09T12:46:00.000-04:002008-06-09T12:46:00.000-04:00Ultra creepy of course. Those images remind me of ...Ultra creepy of course. <BR/><BR/>Those images remind me of Japanese woodcuts (there's a better, more technically correct descriptive word for these.)Jack Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11202365155540203592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-66941125347183831082008-06-09T12:30:00.000-04:002008-06-09T12:30:00.000-04:00great post!great post!Austin Kleonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03109597007967627708noreply@blogger.com