tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post114115574002569532..comments2024-03-28T22:57:07.128-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRAGEDY AND MERE MISERYDavid Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-71522301343549983122008-07-17T23:08:00.000-04:002008-07-17T23:08:00.000-04:00This is the 1st time I've blogged on this site. I ...This is the 1st time I've blogged on this site. I wanted to commend you on an excellent forum. I'm very impressed on the quality of your scans of images. Whatever hardware and settings you use are top notch. and I realize this is an older topic but I wanted to leave a comment about Hampton's work I saw James Hampton's "throne" exhibit in Baltimore. In a word - astonishing. I'm learning a lot reading these blogs. Kudos to all.Kinetix Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352894163922876597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1165521810093995552006-12-07T15:03:00.000-05:002006-12-07T15:03:00.000-05:00Darger has had a bigger impact on the contemporary...Darger has had a bigger impact on the contemporary art world than all but a few artists.<BR/><BR/>But holy shit his novel is bad. It's unreadable. <BR/><BR/>And remember that it was Art Spegelman who brought Darger to the public (in one of the early Raw magazines in the early 80s).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1155449560683524542006-08-13T02:12:00.000-04:002006-08-13T02:12:00.000-04:00many of the same things could be said of contempor...many of the same things could be said of contemporary fiction. i couldn't agree with you more<BR/><BR/>lilylotusgreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04393867916489599891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1142697386696754222006-03-18T10:56:00.000-05:002006-03-18T10:56:00.000-05:00Right on. I can't stand Chris Ware's work at all. ...Right on. I can't stand Chris Ware's work at all. It is so self-indulgent and inane. He forces you to go through his visual obstacle courses which are mistaken for good design only to end up with some trite and predictable statement on human loneliness. Big deal. It's not even suitable for adolescents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1142427063020329472006-03-15T07:51:00.000-05:002006-03-15T07:51:00.000-05:00You and I agree 100% on Leif's blog, Jeff-- it is ...You and I agree 100% on Leif's blog, Jeff-- it is always a treat to vsit.<BR/><BR/>As for Chris Ware, I was trying to use this post as a springboard to get beyond previous discussions about him and move on to a different topic. A number of his fans, when pressed to the wall about the quality of his drawing, claimed that the power and sadness of his message transcended traditional criteria and somehow put him on a more lofty plane than crass commercial artists who sell toothpaste. I had two reactions in this post: 1.) that ain't necessarily so; and 2.) if you're really interested in agonized messages about the human condition, you need to look beyond both the toothpaste illustrators and Chris Ware, to people whose work and life really demonstrate tragedy. Compared to other art out there, I think Chris Ware offers a thin, adolescent (and ultimately self-indulgent) notion of tragedy. So I wanted to showcase some excellent artists who, by their art and deed, were REALLY non-commercial, and who exemplified real tragedy.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1142352982399636292006-03-14T11:16:00.000-05:002006-03-14T11:16:00.000-05:00Is this still the Chris Ware discussion? I'm conf...Is this still the Chris Ware discussion? I'm confused about what your point is. Legitimately. I'm not saying that as a coy way to disagree with you (though I may disagree withyou). Are we talking about the critics exaggerated praise? Or about a lack of drawing skill? Or commercialism? I do think that comparing him to Shakespeare on both ends is ridiculous (in comparing favorably) and unfair (in comparing negatively). My two cents on Ware: I enjoy his work. If I can elaborate on my feelings on illustration "today" as a whole... I love looking at Chris Ware's work, and work like his. The unfortunate thing is that that style is an overwhelming presence in the art/illustration/comics world, and work from artists who can really DRAW is missing, and that's a shame. (John K., of Ren and Stimpy fame, recently made a similar point on the current state of animation). And this is where I'd like to thank Leif for Today's Inspiration.JeffPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09475683425819262604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1142001483513271302006-03-10T09:38:00.000-05:002006-03-10T09:38:00.000-05:00Hellooo? Hhmmm... that's funny, where'd all those...Hellooo? Hhmmm... that's funny, where'd all those harsh critics go?<BR/><BR/>Thanks for another enlightening post, David. L ;-)leifpenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07232334860061949895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1141824421889929382006-03-08T08:27:00.000-05:002006-03-08T08:27:00.000-05:00You are right, Karen, that Darger often used photo...You are right, Karen, that Darger often used photographs from old newspapers and tattered magazines for reference. Sometimes he traced them using old carbon paper. He certainly couldn't afford models and he had no projector or photoshop. <BR/><BR/>I think the way Darger transformed them was key. Not only did he completely change them into beautiful designs in phantasmagorical settings, but he also became emotionally involved with his reference pictures in a way that no other illustrator had before. For example, he found a newspaper picture of a 5 year old girl who had been abducted and brutally murdered. He was so upset that he traced her blurry photo repeatedly, making her a child rebel leader and martyr in his cosmic battle between good and evil. As his obsession grew, he built an altar for her and even claimed that he witnessed her slashing and strangulation. When he later misplaced his precious photograph, he searched for years and became so frustrated and angry that he began to threaten God: if the picture was not returned, Darger would change the outcome of the cosmic battle between good and evil, and the terrible Glandelinians would triumph over the Vivian Girls and their Christian armies!<BR/><BR/>I don't know anyone who used reference pictures quite the same way!David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1141802586661840862006-03-08T02:23:00.000-05:002006-03-08T02:23:00.000-05:00I saw the Darger film a few weeks ago, then more r...I saw the Darger film a few weeks ago, then more recently saw works by Ware and Spiegelman at MOCA in Los Angeles. You make a very astute observation about their suffering and the true 'outsider' nature of Darger compared the more commercial graphic novels. I have to disagree about the quality of illustration, though. I have not seen Darger's work in person but in the film it appeared that much of what he did was to trace from other sources to assemble his tableaus. Still, it is stunning in its scope and impact. Thanks for a thought-provoking essay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com