tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post2341386988698869880..comments2024-03-28T13:34:12.139-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: TIME RUNS OUTDavid Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-84114342912643878392011-04-19T16:50:29.794-04:002011-04-19T16:50:29.794-04:00It is always interesting to read people's thou...It is always interesting to read people's thoughts on art blogs. I think it is a good way to share information between us artists and give us exposure.I recommend you to visit our blog http://segmation.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/3-ways-that-artists-can-benefit-from-blogging/ and share ideas. Also, thanks for allowing me to comment!Segmationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12186729567644442468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-68481263319652182082011-04-13T20:57:11.783-04:002011-04-13T20:57:11.783-04:00Kev Ferrara wrote: "All I know is that N.C. W...Kev Ferrara wrote: "All I know is that N.C. Wyeth made 3000 illustrations for publication, and hundreds of them are great. Frazetta has 40 or so great images to his credit and a hundred or so finished ink illustrations that are great. Pyle has hundreds of finished images worthy of note, etc."<br /><br />Kev, your list of prolific artists reminds me of how many of the greats combined creativity with extreme productivity and discipline. They just kept pushing finished work out the door. If we look at the work habits of Rockwell, Leyendecker, etc. we see they worked like dogs but were also methodical and goal oriented. I suspect their ability to produce finished work was one of the keys to their greatness. Which brings me to one of your examples in particular, Frazetta. I would not dispute your assessment of "40 or so great images" but that number is pretty anemic compared to the other artists you cite. Frazetta was no Korin, but he did repeatedly brag that he was lazy and would often prefer to be playing baseball and hanging out rather than working. It didn't stop him from becoming a legend and making your list, but when you look at how he ended up, I wonder if he didn't cheat himself with his work habits. After his illness and his stroke, he struggled so hard to teach himself to work with his left hand, and managed to produce limited, inferior output. Do you think that, during that disabled period, he had moments of thoughtfulness about his missed opportunities to produce more during his prime? He might have produced two excellent paintings during his peak in the time it took him to produce one inferior painting post-stroke.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-44570090345169487692011-04-13T18:30:28.928-04:002011-04-13T18:30:28.928-04:00Alex-- Just think how much easier photoshop would ...Alex-- Just think how much easier photoshop would have made Stalin's work repainting the faces in those group portraits.<br /><br />Stephen Worth-- I've never been afraid of kitsch and I'm certainly a big fan of art in unconventional places, so I am putting the Styka crucifixion on my list.<br /><br />Oyvind Lauvdahl-- I think there are others who have embraced your alternative way of viewing Korin's aborted project. They compare his unpainted canvas to Malevich's "white on white" canvas, and his preparatory sketches to the sketches of Christo or Duchamp. I'm not sure I am persuaded by these analogies, but I agree that with a little charity and good will, it is possible to breathe a little life into Korin's unfinished work.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-20004562031384875542011-04-09T15:48:48.511-04:002011-04-09T15:48:48.511-04:00Words about anything can become words about words....Words about anything can become words about words. Because words themselves are opinions, opinions often lead to arguments, and arguments often become about the argument. The playing of the game becomes about establishing the rule set of the game in progress. This is the futile essence of debate. Once the debate has been framed, one side has generally already won.<br /><br />:)kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-23269193555744675242011-04-09T14:09:47.433-04:002011-04-09T14:09:47.433-04:00It's amazing how words about images always see...It's amazing how words about images always seem to end up being words about words.Stephen Worthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01047366337202801862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-60785068786791519352011-04-08T18:31:40.770-04:002011-04-08T18:31:40.770-04:00Matthew, I see you have an abiding interest in mak...Matthew, I see you have an abiding interest in making up stories. Have you considered taking the next step? My courses have been designed for beginners just like you, to take your innate talent for story and narrative and turn it into cash gold and a fun and rewarding career. I encourage you to sign up for the workshops available on my site. I think in the long run, you will find the money well spent towards a lucrative career in showbusiness.<br /><br />I look forward to meeting you!<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />S.F.<br /><br />The Guru of All Screenwriters ~ CNNSyd Fieldhttp://www.sydfield.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-77237259178479209212011-04-08T17:59:33.540-04:002011-04-08T17:59:33.540-04:00Kev,
I must admit my argument is a first draft con...Kev,<br />I must admit my argument is a first draft constructed on the fly. I’m sure given time I could polish the presentation more. If I was an academician writing my dissertation, I would of course need more research. I imagine a trip to Moscow would be in order to collect primary sources, see Korin’s collection for myself, and scour through his old KGB case files. <br /><br />However, I believe my hypothesis (a proposition assumed as a premise in an argument) makes at least a provocative story. There is enough here to inspire a “Doctor Zhivago” style novel. Of course, the novel begins and ends as a love story of Korin and his wife. <br /><br />The last page of the future screenplay would describe the defeated artist looking up at his massive blank canvas dejected as a failure. The camera pans back to include his sketches and preliminary works and then further pans back for a wide-angle view that includes the icons displayed at his home. Text appears on the screen describing the fall of the USSR and the return of openly practiced religion in Russia. And then a “Schindler's list” of icons and paintings saved by Korin appear one after the other as the credits role.<br /><br />After I sell the screenplay to Hollywood, the movie version would star Brad Pitt as a red dipper baby attending art school at UC Berkley. At a SDS sit-in he meets the love of his life, Angelina Jolie, a member of the Weather Underground. Agents from the evil Edgar Hoover FBI confront Pitt dissuading him from the completion of his masterpiece that would have ended the Vietnam War. Pitt is forced to become an illustrator for a large advertising firm on Madison Avenue but longs to complete his masterpiece. <br /><br />Well you get the idea.Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-62179057740253449022011-04-08T17:19:40.864-04:002011-04-08T17:19:40.864-04:00Matthew, I see you have an abiding interest in mak...Matthew, I see you have an abiding interest in making up stories. Have you considered taking the next step? My courses have been designed for beginners just like you, to take your innate talent for story and narrative and turn it into cash gold and a fun and rewarding career. I encourage you to sign up for the workshops available on my site. I think in the long run, you will find the money well spent towards a lucrative career in showbusiness. <br /><br />I look forward to meeting you!<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />S.F.<br /><br />The Guru of All Screenwriters ~ CNNSyd Fieldhttp://www.sydfield.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-46230912178267140312011-04-08T15:20:00.621-04:002011-04-08T15:20:00.621-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-63163523135103581312011-04-08T14:55:34.275-04:002011-04-08T14:55:34.275-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-52412694664217858382011-04-08T01:21:16.265-04:002011-04-08T01:21:16.265-04:00Nice blog, hi there, i found that there is one web...Nice blog, hi there, i found that there is one website offering free puzzle games. Just take one minute to sign up then you will receive one free puzzle game. I've done it and now i am enjoying it. Enter the below URL to get same one:<br /><a href="http://www.684899.com/en/CosmicCreature/project_1.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.684899.com/en/CosmicCreature/project_1.htm </a>Angela Wuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07647360969099337830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-75213961528536401242011-04-07T22:47:34.140-04:002011-04-07T22:47:34.140-04:00I actually don't see the connection between th...I actually don't see the connection between the Tillyard-Lewis aesthetic debate and this one about biographical facts and epistemology. I admit I was glib in my reply there, but for the reason stated above. We can get into it another time, I suppose.<br /><br />I am puzzled by what you say, and how you characterize what you say, Matthew. I feel either I am missing your points or you aren't distinguishing between the following types of statements:<br /><br /><b>Argument</b>: a discussion in which reasons are put forward in support of and against a proposition/thesis, proposal, or case; a point or series of reasons presented to support or oppose a proposition. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.<br /><br /><b>Hypothesis</b>: A statement that explains or makes generalizations about a set of facts or principles, usually forming a basis for possible experiments to confirm its viability. The technical name for a theory.<br /><br /><b>Conjecture</b>: Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork, speculation<br /><br /><b>Assumption</b>: Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof; a supposition:<br /><br /><b>Opinion</b>: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: <br /><br /><b>Fancy</b>: A capricious notion; a whim.<br /><br /><b>Fantasy</b>: An unrealistic or improbable supposition. An imagined event or sequence of mental images, such as a daydream, usually fulfilling a wish or psychological need.<br /><br /><b>Counterfactual</b>: expressing what has not happened but could, would, or might under differing conditions<br /><br /><b>Fallacy</b>: an incorrect or misleading notion or opinion based on inaccurate facts or invalid reasoningkev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-11416612713724190302011-04-07T12:46:52.473-04:002011-04-07T12:46:52.473-04:00Thanks Jesse. This helps me see Kev's point.
...Thanks Jesse. This helps me see Kev's point.<br /><br />I am not arguing that we look at Korin's large canvas and put an asterisk next to it to explain what he intended and that his intention and extenuating circumstances make it great art. My argument is that Korin’s life’s work has meaning and his contribution to the arts was profound.Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-43123570816217586742011-04-07T12:44:05.495-04:002011-04-07T12:44:05.495-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-34907090288147805562011-04-07T02:58:49.233-04:002011-04-07T02:58:49.233-04:00Kev, surely Lewis and Tillyard knew other theories...Kev, surely Lewis and Tillyard knew other theories of art; those two are just the ones the men happened to clash over.Jesse Hammhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02253641550766389238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-3080044239606935472011-04-06T22:22:07.804-04:002011-04-06T22:22:07.804-04:00Jesse, that argument reminds me of a question once...Jesse, that argument reminds me of a question once put to Orson Welles about his use of the Scorpion and the Frog fable in one of his movies. They asked him whether he could categorize people along those two lines and he replied, "no, there's a lot more animals to choose from."kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-67640039033525644682011-04-06T21:42:28.455-04:002011-04-06T21:42:28.455-04:00(First, I apologize for the heavy text. I only wa...(First, I apologize for the heavy text. I only wanted to demonstrate my speculation was based on some facts.)<br /><br />It was his destiny to be an iconographer. It was in his genes. That whole world was almost completely destroyed. He risked his life to save what he could. How do you secure what you love for future generations? I think he developed a code that could be read by like minded individuals and not be rejected by the censors in a life or death strugle. I find it revealing that in his preliminary sketch for his opus only the elements of religious significance are rendered in color.Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-1078183659998420822011-04-06T21:18:54.104-04:002011-04-06T21:18:54.104-04:00This discussion reminds me of a debate between C. ...This discussion reminds me of a debate between C. S. Lewis and E. M. W. Tillyard (summarized <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Personal_Heresy" rel="nofollow">here</a> and available <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Personal-Heresy-Controversy-Lewis-Tillyard/dp/1881848108" rel="nofollow">here</a>), in which they argued the merits of two competing views of poetry -- or, by extension, art. On one view, art's purpose is to reveal the artist, the way a primitive man's garbage and tools reveal him to an anthropologist. The artist's intent in that case is mostly irrelevant to what his works reveal about his identity. On the other view, art's purpose is to reveal the world outside of the artist, or at least parts of it that might have been missed by others. In that case, the artist's intent is important, but his own identity is irrelevant. Lewis and Tillyard conceded that both identity and intent may be at least somewhat relevant to art appreciation, but they differed over which of those matters is trivial and which is paramount. <br /><br />I'm not sure which side I agree with. If identity is paramount, why even bother with art? We can just study people's habits and conversation, and spare them the trouble of expressing themselves through hard-won craft. But if intent is paramount, you have to grapple with the fact that most artists -- even good ones -- have a lot of stupid things to say, and are themselves often more interesting than their opinions. <br /><br />In Korin's case, I find both his intentions and his life uninspiring.Jesse Hammhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02253641550766389238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-58120096677655363782011-04-06T17:43:01.344-04:002011-04-06T17:43:01.344-04:00You are back projecting postmodernist pseudo profu...You are back projecting postmodernist pseudo profundities about "what is art?" onto an artist that had no discernable association with those ideas.<br /><br />The oppressive history of the USSR is well known to most readers here.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-52186735863489452142011-04-06T17:41:33.320-04:002011-04-06T17:41:33.320-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-8628354009648916532011-04-06T16:14:19.937-04:002011-04-06T16:14:19.937-04:00“In 1933 Korin moved to the studio on Malaya Pirog...“In 1933 Korin moved to the studio on Malaya Pirogovka Street in Moscow where he worked until his death. Now the building is Korin's museum.”<br /><br />Korin’s Museum?<br /><br />My hypothesis: the grand canvas for Korin’s life’s work was really the contents of his house, left to history just as he planned, a finished piece of art, expressing his love of icons and as much religious context he dared share in a society that was trying to stamp that religion out. <br /><br />From the website of the State Tretyakov Gallery:<br /><br />“The House-Museum of Pavel Korin, part of the All-Union (All-Russia since 1994) Museum Association of the State Tretyakov Gallery, is located in a small building on 16-2 Malaya Pirogovskaya Street. The artist moved here in 1933. A considerable part of P.Korin’s creative and art collecting work, which consisted of an extensive collection of old Russian icons, is associated with the house. At the end of his life the artist composed a will where he left everything he owned, including his icon collection, house and everything that was in it to the Tretyakov Gallery. His property was to be preserved in the same condition as the day he died. When Pavel Korin died, his widow Prascovia Korina addressed the Gallery and the Ministry of Culture in the USSR in 1967 with the same proposal. The Council of Ministers of the USSR passed a decree accepting the old Russian art collection as a gift and established an art museum, a branch of the Tretyakov Gallery, in the Pavel Korin’s house. Its first director and guardian was Prascovia Korina.”Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-13274172941493014722011-04-06T16:09:19.322-04:002011-04-06T16:09:19.322-04:00“Pavel Korin was born in the village of Palekh …to...“Pavel Korin was born in the village of Palekh …to a family of a professional icon-painter Dmitry Nikolaevich Korin [in] 1892. In 1897, when Pavel was only five years old, his father died. In 1903-1907 he studied at the School for Icon Painting at Palekh getting a formal certificate as a professional icon-painter. In 1908 he moved to Moscow and until 1911 worked there at the Icon shop of the Don Monastery.”<br /><br />“In 1911 he worked as an apprentice to Mikhail Nesterov on frescoes…at the Convent of Martha and Mary…in Moscow. In 1926 the Convent of Martha and Mary was closed by the Soviets and all the art there was to be destroyed. Pavel and his brother Alexander managed to smuggle out and save the iconostasis and some of the frescoes. On March 7 of that year he married Praskovya Tikhonovna Petrova, a disciple of the Convent of Martha and Mary.”<br /><br />“In 1931 Korin started to work as the Head of the Restoration Shop of Museum of the Foreign Art...He held this position for until 1959. After this he held the position of the Director of the State Central Art Restoration Works…until his death. As one of the most senior Russian restorers of the time he contributed enormously to the saving and restoration of famous paintings.”Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-50002600545865568102011-04-06T12:50:50.260-04:002011-04-06T12:50:50.260-04:00Thanks Kev.
What interested me was that Korin'...Thanks Kev.<br /><br />What interested me was that Korin's painting was described as Dangerous. Why?<br /><br />More Wikipedia:<br /><br />"The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion and its replacement with atheism. Toward that end, the communist regime confiscated religious property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools. The confiscation of religious assets was often based on groundless accusations of illegal accumulation of wealth."<br /><br />"Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and, ultimately, elimination of religious beliefs. Within about a year of the revolution the state expropriated all church property, including the churches themselves, and in the period from 1922 to 1926, 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests were killed (a much greater number was subjected to persecution)."Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-2305571767926365192011-04-05T23:57:46.990-04:002011-04-05T23:57:46.990-04:00No problem, Matthew. /hat tip/
Be well,
kevNo problem, Matthew. /hat tip/<br /><br />Be well,<br />kevkev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-54904686958663901532011-04-05T15:59:37.682-04:002011-04-05T15:59:37.682-04:00I apologize kev. It wasn’t my intention to deceiv...I apologize kev. It wasn’t my intention to deceive. The rest of the Wikipedia quote:<br /><br />“In 1931 Maxim Gorky advised Korin that the name Requiem for Russia was too strong to be accepted and recommended a change to Русь Уходящая - literally Rus that is going away, but usually translated as Farewell to Rus. Gorky believed that the painting showing the last parade of the Orthodox Church, depicting the tragedy and at the same time the misery of those people who would will disappear into irrelevancy, would be accepted and even well-received by the Government. Korin agreed with the new name of the painting.”<br /><br />This reminds me of Veronese's Inquisition Trial and the Last Supper being changed to the Wedding at Cana.Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.com