tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post2887111889800488970..comments2024-03-28T22:57:07.128-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: ARTISTS IN LOVE, part 18David Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-77104104479508427752011-05-11T19:06:36.113-04:002011-05-11T19:06:36.113-04:00Antonio Araujo-- whether or not you "speak fo...Antonio Araujo-- whether or not you "speak for the generality of this assembly" I am guessing they will be hiding a safe distance behind you when you do.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-7261869723466177392011-05-11T13:09:24.547-04:002011-05-11T13:09:24.547-04:00David,
>Gosh, I'm depending on it.
You ar...David,<br /><br />>Gosh, I'm depending on it.<br /><br />You are a flatterer, that's what you are. :) But though the lady in question should be pleased by your vain protestations, she knows, and you know, that women are ruthless in matters of affection. She stays with you only as long as she sees in you what she wants and loves. Which is good. These are not matters where charity should have a place.<br /><br />What we may sometimes be thankful for, when we are lucky beyond our hopes and merits, is not the charity of women, but the fact that their preferences may sometimes be not as wise or rational as they might.<br /><br />> but I think most people would >agree that men had a better deal >during that era than women. <br /><br />I wasn't disagreeing with that part of your post. The social and professionals limitations imposed on women at the time are more than obvious. My argument relates only to whether John was such a "jerk", in his romantic relations with them, as far as the specifics go. Certainly you can point to aspects where he was opressive, where his expectiations were limiting, but the question is whether he is a "jerk" regarding the points where he differs from the attitudes of the time, not regarding those points where he was behaving like any other man of his age.<br /><br />Also, any man who incites women into "hot lesbian action" (and I think I speak for the generality of this assembly) can safely be regarded a benefactor of mankind. :)António Araújohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03059765930331992020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-83466404728769563272011-05-11T05:47:01.769-04:002011-05-11T05:47:01.769-04:00Matthew Harwood-- it wasn't generally that kin...Matthew Harwood-- it wasn't generally that kind of correspondence. However, when I wrote him that my childhood dream was to become an artist but that his books persuaded me the responsible thing was to study science and work on international regulation of nuclear materials, he responded, "I shall take full credit for your conversion but don't blame me if you are disappointed."<br /><br />Antonio Araujo-- I agree that society imposes constraints on us all, but I think most people would agree that men had a better deal during that era than women. It is possible that John became a famous artist while all the women art students around him ended up raising babies and living in tents out on the heath because he was talented and they were not. However, I don't think that explanation is compelled by comparing John's work with Gwen's.<br /><br />Gwen and Dorelia's walk to Rome reminds me of another woman artist's famous walk to Rome: the dada artist Hannah Hoch belonged to the (mostly male) Berlin dada group, which belittled her work and dismissed her as "the good girl." Although the dadaists proclaimed support for women's emancipation, they treated women artists as second rate. Hannah ended up as the mistress of (married) dadaist Raoul Hausmann who treated her badly. When she reminded him of his promise that he would leave his wife, he beat her, so she walked from Munich to Rome in 1922 to get away from him. Perhaps her decision to be with Hausmann in the first place was consensual, but perhaps she just had a worse set of choices than the men of her era.<br /><br />"Would any woman stay with a guy out of the kindness of her heart, if she could have another one she preferred?" Gosh, I'm depending on it.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-28244901185364330852011-05-10T07:23:22.341-04:002011-05-10T07:23:22.341-04:00David, I won't be so hard on John. Those momen...David, I won't be so hard on John. Those moments that those women had with each other would never have happened if not from his forcing of the social standards. Once they broke all the rules, under his initial impetus, there was no holding them back.<br /><br />You criticize the social constraints that society placed on those women. Well, it places other constraints on us all. Most men simulate a monogamous instinct that does not stem from any conviction. It is a fraud, pure and simple.<br /><br />I do not know John's story. If he beat them or mistreated them, then yes, he was a jerk. But if he merely seduced them, and was even as open about it as you say, then kudos to him for living the life he wanted - he gave them a choice to join him or not. They were not forced, not even by social custom, as they would be forced to comply with so much nonsense in an ordinary relationship of the time. If the complaint is that he didn't give each one enough attention...well, that's hard, but Angelina doesn't return my calls either! :) If they couldn't keep his interest, there is nobody to blame, it is just how it is - would any woman stay with a guy out of the kindness of her heart, if she could have another one she preferred? In the realm of the heart the powerful do what they please and the weak suffer what they must. But still, compare their arrangement to the typical marriage of the time, the placid wife, the sexual restrictions, the shame, and the common infidelity done behind the wife's back, which, by the way, is the standard morality of married life in polite bourgeois society, today as much as ever. Was it such bad a deal? <br /><br />I'll read more on John, I suspect I'll find something to like, and it's not his drawings. :)<br /><br />>But I guess the question is: is it >better to expend such a gift on >unbridled sex and high living, or >is it better to re-invest it in >working on more and better art? <br /><br />Is this a trick question? :DAntónio Araújohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10477716038667816702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-20702820485600852022011-05-10T07:03:30.197-04:002011-05-10T07:03:30.197-04:00"in studies done of men in prison, it has bee..."in studies done of men in prison, it has been found that a higher percentage of them have suffered severe or multiple head injures in their lives as compared with the non-prison population as a whole"<br /><br />Correlation vs causation. Suppose you are a young thug, for one reason or another. Then you are both more prone to go to prison and to suffer multiple head injuries. <br /><br />In order to be valid the studies have to show a measurable *change* in personality *after* a bump in the head, and that can't be done just by comparing relative incidence of head injuries in prison vs general population - you have to have a good patient history and access hard to measure parameters - no good saying "he had more arrests after being beaten in the head", as you are bound to have a few dangerous adventures before going to jail. Even limiting analysis to accidental head injuries has to take into account that those accidents come more often to people who are already prone to risky behaviour, and such carelessness with risk can become with time a tendency for crime.<br /><br />I'd be willing to bet that personality changes of that type are real but very uncommon events. "Don't flinch now, John, I'll have to hit you just righ with this bat". A much more common transfiguration than normal-to-bohemian or normal-to-criminal is probably normal-to-vegetable (stands to reason; normal is pretty close to vegetable anyway :D).<br /><br />Further, a few of those transformations are probably a psichological, not neurological effect: suppose you were always a closet bohemian; you bump your head, almost die; you realise life is short, and you might as well live it...and you even have a romantic/tragic excuse!<br /><br />Even further, there is a possible placebo effect: again, you are a closeted bohemian; hit your head; hear some people have changes in personality after accidents; welcome in, Mr Hyde.<br /><br />Gets hard to disentangle...António Araújohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10477716038667816702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-24383848302585423762011-05-10T01:47:47.347-04:002011-05-10T01:47:47.347-04:00David--I'm curious if Koestler gave you career...David--I'm curious if Koestler gave you career advice. If you don't mind, please share something you wrote to him and his reply.Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-76331291984138136582011-05-09T23:37:28.412-04:002011-05-09T23:37:28.412-04:00Matthew Harwood-- Koestler is one of my favorite a...Matthew Harwood-- Koestler is one of my favorite authors of the 20th century. When I was a young pup, I read everything he ever wrote and was presumptuous enough to write him with my helpful reactions. He very generously wrote me back, and I've kept all his letters. <br /><br />I believe the quote you like about skeletons was from The Sleepwalkers, which is a small miracle of a book. I also agree with you about the quote you found.<br /><br />Smurfswacker-- Yes, there is a real revolution going on in the field of information, and particularly information access. Just as the age of encyclopedists gave way to the age of specialists, the age of specialists seems to be fraying because human expertise is no longer adequate for accessing the growing pool of information necessary to navigate those black boxes. You need google to even help you hone in on traditional outcroppings of knowledge.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-46714126027614035672011-05-09T20:39:20.261-04:002011-05-09T20:39:20.261-04:00Matthew--that's a fascinating quote. I wonder ...Matthew--that's a fascinating quote. I wonder how human thought has been changed by the quickening transition from a "gizmo" world to a "black box" world.<br /><br />Consider cars: forty years ago they were basically mechanical gizmos. With a bit of training and some clear thinking one could find a physical explanation for fuel system problems, electrical faults, etc., and fix them by juggling pieces. As solid state electronics took over, more and more important stuff happened at the molecular level where one couldn't see it, much less repair it. So today we just throw out the old "black box" and install a new one.<br /><br />Surely this change has widened the disconnect between people and the "universal order."<br /><br />(Disclaimer for those with thin techno-skins: I'm not saying things were <b>better</b> the old way, just that the change is interesting. Still there's something to be said for being able to repair your carburetor with a paper clip.)Smurfswackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11807173070389349098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-86258477150008595802011-05-09T17:50:25.456-04:002011-05-09T17:50:25.456-04:00Thanks David, I love this quote. In trying to fin...Thanks David, I love this quote. In trying to find its context, I found another Arthur Koestler pearl of wisdom applicable to today:<br />“Modern man lives isolated in his artificial environment, not because the artificial is evil as such, but because of his lack of comprehension of the forces which make it work- of the principles which relate his gadgets to the forces of nature, to the universal order. It is not central heating which makes his existence ‘unnatural,’ but his refusal to take an interest in the principles behind it. By being entirely dependent on science, yet closing his mind to it, he leads the life of an urban barbarian.”Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-30727663338229883742011-05-09T07:49:57.074-04:002011-05-09T07:49:57.074-04:00"Isn't that obviously so?"
The firs..."Isn't that obviously so?"<br /><br />The first few steps down that long trail may seem obvious, but I suspect the answer will ultimately prove more complex. As the great Arthur Koestler said, “The progress of science is strewn, like an ancient desert trail, with the bleached skeletons of discarded theories which once seemed to possess eternal life.”David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-90767382906910515802011-05-08T07:37:44.432-04:002011-05-08T07:37:44.432-04:00"Robert Cook-- I hate to think of the number ...<i>"Robert Cook-- I hate to think of the number of profoundly human traits and eccentricities that we now attribute to personal taste and judgment and thought but which we will someday trace to a correctable chemical imbalance or a blow to the head."</i><br /><br />And yet...isn't that obviously so?Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-17268038419460564042011-05-08T00:09:25.504-04:002011-05-08T00:09:25.504-04:00Robert Cook-- I hate to think of the number of pro...Robert Cook-- I hate to think of the number of profoundly human traits and eccentricities that we now attribute to personal taste and judgment and thought but which we will someday trace to a correctable chemical imbalance or a blow to the head.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-40959918816949123162011-05-07T14:16:33.663-04:002011-05-07T14:16:33.663-04:00Whether John was transformed after his head injury...Whether John was transformed after his head injury from a good to a great draughtsman, who can say? <br /><br />As to his alleged transformation from a sober citizen to a wildly randy bohemian, it is certainly possible. There are many cases in the medical literature of persons undergoing changes in personality and behavior after suffering head injuries, particularly injuries to the frontal cortex. Apparently, this part of the brain is where impulse control is regulated. I've read that in studies done of men in prison, it has been found that a higher percentage of them have suffered severe or multiple head injures in their lives as compared with the non-prison population as a whole, and it is postulated by some that this may have contributed to their lives of criminal behavior and/or violence.Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-39892141696512010212011-05-07T11:28:01.688-04:002011-05-07T11:28:01.688-04:00Matthew Harwood-- It's amazing to me that an a...Matthew Harwood-- It's amazing to me that an artist who tried to persuade women to model for him by saying, "It's not as if you were very fat" wasn't thumped on the head regularly. <br /><br />I would not be surprised if John's talent dropped off because some indignant member of his harem was slipping rat poison in his tea.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-23790972476116946122011-05-07T09:30:01.766-04:002011-05-07T09:30:01.766-04:00"That fall happened while he was still in the..."That fall happened while he was still in the early years of art school. His drawings were said to improve dramatically after the incident."<br /><br />Perhaps later in life when his talent waned, all he needed was one of his muses to give him another good thump to the head. :)Matthew Harwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00734480582730495611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-89325272523034672022011-05-06T08:13:55.782-04:002011-05-06T08:13:55.782-04:00Smurfswacker-- It's easy to understand why peo...Smurfswacker-- It's easy to understand why people grasp for the source of artistic power. Even if you don't make it all the way to the immortality of Raphael or Michelangelo, having dozens of beautiful girlfriends like Augustus John is pretty darn cool. The ancient Greeks thought the power came from the muse. In the 1960s, people wondered whether the Beatles gained a higher level of inspiration from LSD. <br /><br />I can't say where artistic gifts come from, but I do think a lot of serendipity goes into artistic reputation. I think there are others with the talent of Raphael who never ended up with the fame or the girlfriends. "Many a flower is born to blush unseen and waste its sweetness on the desert air."David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-34876211633405488062011-05-06T00:55:25.732-04:002011-05-06T00:55:25.732-04:00There's something that makes people want to ex...There's something that makes people want to explain artists. The bop-on-the-head story offers a magical explanation of an ability that seems magical to many. <br /><br />But this is just one of countless standard myths about artists, embraced by both outsiders and insiders. There's the died-young story: if the artist hadn't died young s/he'd have surpassed all the established greats (Frank Leyendecker is one who got this treatment). Or the unappreciated underling: if the artist hadn't been dominated by a mentor's personality, s/he would have eclipsed the master's accomplishments (this is a big one for artists' assistants, mistresses, relatives etc.)<br /><br />Sometimes pieces of these myths are supported by facts. This lends them staying power. But they're still just myths. The individual complexities of an artist's life are ignored for the sake of a good story.<br /><br />Is this related somehow to the desire to compare the latest star with the Old Masters? Reading contemporary accounts of 19th-century artists I often run into glowing comparisons with Raphael or Michelangelo. Most of those reviewed are now forgotten.<br /><br />Augustus John demonstrates the messy contradictions and inconsistencies that make up so many artists (and most everyone else, to tell the truth). We try to reconcile the discordant elements but it can't be done. Zaphod Beeblebrox's analyst said it best: "He's just this guy, you know?"Smurfswackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11807173070389349098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-85468197051182852122011-05-05T22:43:32.876-04:002011-05-05T22:43:32.876-04:00T.O.M.-- Thanks for the link to the John drawings...T.O.M.-- Thanks for the link to the John drawings. There are some very nice drawings in the mix, but I don't see anything to support Sargent's appraisal. <br /><br />As for the Fawcett book, I'm flattered that anyone would actually take time away from pictures like that to read the adjacent text. But I am also broken hearted to hear that a typo made it through multiple readings by multiple people. Can you write me at david.apatoff@gmail.com and tell me what you found? Thanks.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-34165569445709333842011-05-05T22:30:14.206-04:002011-05-05T22:30:14.206-04:00Sherm-- I would agree that applies to John, althou...Sherm-- I would agree that applies to John, although I'm not sure we can extrapolate to all British artists. There were certainly no flies on Turner.<br /><br />Anonymous and Anonymous--One of the toughest things about trying to squeeze the story of Augustus John into a short blog post is that you have to pick just one or two from among his many legends. Yes, when John was a young man, he cracked his skull in a diving accident. The folklore is that he went from being a quiet, methodical person to a wild, flamboyant character, and went from being a decent artist to being a great artist. The truth is unclear, but it sounds pretty implausible to me (and most responsible biographers are skeptical). <br /><br />On the other hand, not too much later Margaret Campbell, the Duchess of Argyll, hit her head in a fall and was instantly transformed from being refined English nobility to a sexually insatiable harlot. The Duchess apparently made Augustus John look like a monk. Sherm, are there any sayings about the British getting hit on the head?David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-21267887418485823162011-05-05T19:52:07.363-04:002011-05-05T19:52:07.363-04:00That fall happened while he was still in the early...That fall happened while he was still in the early years of art school. His drawings were said to improve dramatically after the incident.<br /><br />Anyone who wants to see more Augustus John drawings can go here:<br /><br /><a href="http://augustus-john.livejournal.com" rel="nofollow">Augustus John Drawings</a><br /><br /><br />On a tangentially related note, what is up with all the typos in the new Robert Fawcett book? I've counted at least five already and I'm still mostly ogling the pictures. You guys need a better proofreader.<br /><br />- T.O.M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-17716078775924537872011-05-05T19:06:50.262-04:002011-05-05T19:06:50.262-04:00Did he not have a fall that resulted in a injury t...Did he not have a fall that resulted in a injury to his head and after that was never really the sameAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-7286875405788520002011-05-05T17:18:25.662-04:002011-05-05T17:18:25.662-04:00There's a quote about British art being full o...There's a quote about British art being full of the 'fly-blown corpses' of artists destined for greatness but never made the grade.It was used in this context about Augustus John who evidently dissipated his energy in living the life of a wastrel.Shermnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-60183918352341813032011-05-05T14:46:37.740-04:002011-05-05T14:46:37.740-04:00Well, this certainly seems to be my week for anony...Well, this certainly seems to be my week for anonymous contributors. Perhaps this post is making the rounds at San Quentin.<br /><br />Latest anonymous, have you read Leaves of Grass with care? If John misused art as a seduction tool, Whitman was the real thing.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-48423991478247107112011-05-05T13:58:16.676-04:002011-05-05T13:58:16.676-04:00"Who among us wouldn't be gay for Walt Wh..."Who among us wouldn't be gay for Walt Whitman?"<br /><br />He'd have to pay be a shitload of money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-31972047400521461462011-05-05T09:36:52.959-04:002011-05-05T09:36:52.959-04:00One thing about these "artists in love" ...One thing about these "artists in love" posts is that they seem to attract a higher percentage of anonymous commenters than any other kind of post.<br /><br />To the anonymous who wrote, "I'm not comfortable with all the blame being put on the males. Surely, women have enough awareness, independence and willpower to see that they are being used before they get too attached to an incredibly selfish person. Or do they...?" <br /><br />There were certainly a lot of women in the 19th and early 20th centuries who would not have put up with what Ida, Gwen and Dorelia did. In fact, many women went to them and warned that John was taking advantage of them. Yet, I don't think John's women were just weak or submissive. Hard to say what combination of carrots and sticks motivated each one, but I think that if Michelangelo came to one of us and asked us to do extraordinary things, we might do them in order to be close enough to warm our hands at the fire. Who among us wouldn't be gay for Walt Whitman? <br /><br />To the anonymous who wrote, "He sounds like a SOB," that's certainly true but I think he was enabled by celebrities and newspapers who were transfixed by his life of self-indulgence. He used to hang out with James Joyce, George Bernard Shaw and William Butler Yeats long after he stopped painting well.<br /><br />To the anonymous who wrote that this blog has been missing "hot lesbian sex," I'm glad I could accommodate you.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.com