tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post4003288596567803791..comments2024-03-28T22:57:07.128-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?David Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-74818224695515764022013-01-17T07:16:57.211-05:002013-01-17T07:16:57.211-05:00Benton was clueless! Ha ha ha! That's funny!Benton was clueless! Ha ha ha! That's funny!Ed Gurneyhttp://edwardrgurney.com/20th-century-american-artists/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-21523939204037250272011-09-08T17:02:47.285-04:002011-09-08T17:02:47.285-04:00I realize this was posted forever ago (wow, on my ...I realize this was posted forever ago (wow, on my birthday, even), but since I'm browsing the art-related blogs I followed to get some inspiration, I revisited this entry.<br />It's kind of encouraging to know that even the most skilled artists all have their weak points and aren't necessarily amazing at everything!KatWarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05990692167736071971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-47323262494101746202011-07-27T19:55:04.554-04:002011-07-27T19:55:04.554-04:00After reading the fascinating back-and-forth regar...After reading the fascinating back-and-forth regarding Benton's "Twist" I dreamed up another reason he might have made the painting.<br /><br />Perhaps Benton used the means he knew best--making a painting--to try to understand something he couldn't comprehend: today's kids and their crazy dances. Maybe Benton felt that a visual interpretation of a twist party would give him a sense of what the kids were so excited about.<br /><br />But Benton's vision was distorted by a lifetime of experiences and understandings from an earlier generation. Seeing someone pounding bongos, he might have thought "Ah! Drums!" and painted something like a tomtom because that's what "drum" always meant to him.<br /><br />It reminds me of the frustration of drawing from reference. Say I sit down to draw Paris 1908. No matter how meticulous my research, I'll always get it wrong. I can put into my picture only what I have discovered. A genuine 1908 Parisian <i>knew</i> what the world looked like and smelled like and felt like. All I'll ever manage is a 2011 take on 1908 Paris.<br /><br />As Benton demonstrated, cross-generational understanding is so tricky because everyone outside a given generation is always working from reference. In the early 70s I saw a painting by an established portraitist (can't remember who) of a hippie couple. It was painted with great sympathy and attention to detail, Still it looked like an old guy's version of hippies. Something about the piece told us that he was painting what he saw but couldn't understand just what it was he was seeing.Smurfswackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11807173070389349098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-30552369631513646062011-07-24T12:31:15.068-04:002011-07-24T12:31:15.068-04:00Robin Cave-- I agree with you, Heritage has a phen...Robin Cave-- I agree with you, Heritage has a phenomenal site. They established it to provide reliable information to prospective buyers, and I have often used it for that purpose, but it is also of great use to fans and scholars.<br /><br />Chris Bennett-- Hard to say whether Rivera would be vulnerable to that kind of kryptonite, but there were a great many things that his style would preclude him from doing effectively. Can you imagine Rivera doing a race car scene the way Peter Helck did?<br /><br />Laurence John, Etc, etc and Richard-- I agree, Freud was a major talent. He was a dedicated artist and helped keep oil painting alive as a legitimate medium. <br /><br />P. Hos-- first bongos, then conga, then djembe? Clearly I am way over my head.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-26883747647129430042011-07-22T16:50:12.141-04:002011-07-22T16:50:12.141-04:00I don't think that's bongos. Looks more l...I don't think that's bongos. Looks more like djembe to me, which might be why there's only one of them.P. Hoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10849097410779896549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-36353347072472834952011-07-22T09:58:52.458-04:002011-07-22T09:58:52.458-04:00Requiescat In PaceRequiescat In PaceRichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08249577762409684046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-67719831607108776872011-07-22T08:12:44.299-04:002011-07-22T08:12:44.299-04:00Freud was a great painter. I get the sense that m...Freud was a great painter. I get the sense that modeling form with paint was what excited him and was what he considered beautiful, with disregard for all other conventions of beauty. While I don't share that perspective, I love the way he made warm and cool tones interact to describe form.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-16535703970374591342011-07-22T04:30:17.011-04:002011-07-22T04:30:17.011-04:00Lucian Freud died yesterday aged 88.<a href="http://tinyurl.com/4yywkbk" rel="nofollow">Lucian Freud</a> died yesterday aged 88.Laurence Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11988700485839219253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-26367127905004269892011-07-21T17:06:50.808-04:002011-07-21T17:06:50.808-04:00I could kinda imagine Diego Rivera being immune fr...I could kinda imagine Diego Rivera being immune from that particular art kryptonite...chris bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02088693067960235141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-23274864380098960752011-07-21T11:34:41.514-04:002011-07-21T11:34:41.514-04:00David,
all the evidence is helpful but I think th...David,<br /><br />all the evidence is helpful but I think the Heritage Arts giant originals give us so much more information than most other displays. <br /><br />It is more detail than a book or magazine illustration and really helps break down the process if you look close enough. Where else could you study the details of so many classic illustrations. <br /><br />I don't think they will remain online in this state forever, some Thai or Chinese publisher will start publishing books of the classics and they will disappear from such ready sources. <br /><br />Check em out while you can.<br /><br />http://fineart.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=5059&lotNo=78065#Photo<br /><br />----> ROBinRobin Cavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10353567187150888824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-59363876981024689622011-07-18T12:05:46.122-04:002011-07-18T12:05:46.122-04:00David... yeah, you're right. Bob Peak may have...David... yeah, you're right. Bob Peak may have been able to do it. Maybe Al Parker too.<br /><br />The reason I listed Andrew Wyeth, The Ashcanners, Hopper, and Bellows was that they were enormously talented and also painted "americana" subjects... and therefore, there was some chance that some native american cultural ritual like a conga party might have crossed their radar screens. I agree that the odds they would have found the subject worth creating art about seems low... which supports my point that the conga party is such a goofy spectacle that it is akin to art kryptonite.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-45699176010569907812011-07-18T10:07:17.768-04:002011-07-18T10:07:17.768-04:00They also suggested the contorted souls writhing i...<i>They also suggested the contorted souls writhing in the fire pits of hell in Dante's inferno.</i><br /><br />I assume that's tongue-in-cheek, but even so I don't agree; even if that is the case, that kind of subject matter would seem far more anomalous from Benton than the twist in my opinion.<br /><br /><i>Real artist are rare nowadays on the net, they start posting their works.</i><br /><br />Given the great ideological disparity of accomplished artists, I hardly think that's an effective way to evaluate truthfulness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-73643877716300865802011-07-18T09:44:56.714-04:002011-07-18T09:44:56.714-04:00Anonymous and Robin Cave-- I agree that Heritage i...Anonymous and Robin Cave-- I agree that Heritage is a great resource. Also, the Illustration House gallery in NY published a whole catalog of Raleigh's work years ago and may still have copies. Other than that, I'd turn to the internet. There's no book (yet).<br /><br />Roostertree wrote: "Clients know nothing about design."<br /><br />I'd hesitate before I conclude that.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-47494505666826591632011-07-18T09:34:55.769-04:002011-07-18T09:34:55.769-04:00Etc, etc wrote: "Benton doodled some rather a...Etc, etc wrote: "Benton doodled some rather abstract figures which suggested 'the Twist'"<br /><br />They also suggested the contorted souls writhing in the fire pits of hell in Dante's inferno. <br /><br />Kev Ferrara-- I imagine there are some artists who could handle a conga party (Bob Peak or Lucia) but Benton??? I agree with you, sheer kryptonite. Also, "Edward Hopper, Andrew Wyeth, the Ashcan boys." I don't understand why they'd even be interested.<br /><br />Richard-- I agree with you that Benton was probably referring to the dance, "the twist" rather than Chubby Checker's song of the same name (although according to wikipedia, "the simple dance that we now know as the Twist seems to have come from Chubby Checker in his preparation to debut the song to a national audience on August 6, 1960, on The Dick Clark Show"). Apparently, some commenters believe Benton was watching that show, grooving to the frug and the pony, when Chubby Checker came on and inspired him with the twist. <br /><br />As for your question, "a word document, pdf, etc. of your blog entries? I'd love to be able to download them," I never thought about it but I'm flattered by the question. Until I think of some intelligent way to handle it, Firefox has a free extension called "Read it Later" which is great for reading web content on a bus or subway using an unconnected laptop or smartphone.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-23067735200353546592011-07-18T06:18:10.214-04:002011-07-18T06:18:10.214-04:00Real artist are rare nowadays on the net, they sta...Real artist are rare nowadays on the net, they start posting their works.gout treatmentshttp://gouttreatment.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-45876159181525063912011-07-17T16:39:15.484-04:002011-07-17T16:39:15.484-04:00Next time, hesitate before you condemn. My paid de...Next time, hesitate before you condemn. My paid design experience is extremely limited (I've chosen to starve & do non-commercial art), so take this for what it's worth. Note that it's a big reason I chose this path. <br /><br />Clients know nothing about design, but they do have oodles of market research. Acknowledging that I know nothing about Wyeth's work habits, how likely is it Wyeth did a better draft of that particular poster, perhaps with the coke glass off centre, just to have the client say 'Put it in the middle.' (meaning 'I don't know what looks good, but I know what I want.') ?<br /><br />Maybe it wasn't the case here, but it does sum up the mindset of the client who tries to anticipate what will separate a consumer from his/her dollars. <br /><br />Ugly but effective is a-okay in marketing.roostertreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564270861342414061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-16955591945295096112011-07-16T10:36:40.203-04:002011-07-16T10:36:40.203-04:00Thank you very much!Thank you very much!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-37597469020273789462011-07-15T23:58:35.429-04:002011-07-15T23:58:35.429-04:00It is off topic but you can find a bunch of really...It is off topic but you can find a bunch of really good big Raleighs on the Heritage Auction site.<br /><br />http://fineart.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&N=50+790+231&Ntt=henry+raleigh<br /><br />but you might have to sign in to see them really big. Tonnes of other good illustrators too.Robin Cavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10353567187150888824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-61894420184173983222011-07-15T10:57:14.301-04:002011-07-15T10:57:14.301-04:00I know it´s not the best place to say it, but coul...I know it´s not the best place to say it, but could you tell me please where I can find more Henry Raleigh´s works? thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-10318669332498070202011-07-14T13:15:41.185-04:002011-07-14T13:15:41.185-04:00Also, also, also -- David, do you have a word docu...Also, also, also -- David, do you have a word document, pdf, etc. of your blog entries? I'd love to be able to download them so that I can read them when I don't have access to the internet (e.g. the bus).Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08249577762409684046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-91851604037365252142011-07-14T13:13:24.825-04:002011-07-14T13:13:24.825-04:00"So what in the world was he thinking when he..."So what in the world was he thinking when he tried to paint a rock n' roll party, with people dancing to "the Twist" by Chubby Checker?"<br /><br />I would also like to mention that I believe the title of the painting references the dance, not the song.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08249577762409684046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-88242192488112691262011-07-13T12:39:48.043-04:002011-07-13T12:39:48.043-04:00The Regionalists believed in homespun American sub...The Regionalists believed in homespun American subject matter... farming, railroads, factories, city life, poker games, the west, the suburbs... But with the rise of the U.S. in the 20th century, there was a concurrent rise in the frivolity of how we entertained ourselves. A conga drum party in a dorm may be the pinnacle goofball spectacle. Imagine any regionalist making a painting out of that... Edward Hopper, Andrew Wyeth, the Ashcan boys, Bellows, etc. It can't be done! (Could anybody do it? Are there any conga party paintings anywhere that are great art? Is the American Dorm Conga Party "Art Kryptonite"?)kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-55363030432119789512011-07-13T10:52:58.394-04:002011-07-13T10:52:58.394-04:00Richard wrote: "I believe that is a Conga dru...Richard wrote: "I believe that is a Conga drum." <br /><br />Omigod, I believe you're right! <br /><br />It really does take a village to arrive at the truth in these complex areas. Now all of my careful research into bongos is for naught. I will just have to start over again with congas (and I can tell you from my first google search on the subject that material on the conga dance and the conga drum are not as neatly divided as one might hope.)<br /><br />Gosh, this blogging business is such hard work....David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-87837562080050068852011-07-13T10:43:56.591-04:002011-07-13T10:43:56.591-04:00Al McLuckie-- Despite all his talent, I suspect th...Al McLuckie-- Despite all his talent, I suspect that a Frazetta painting of a boardroom with executives would look pretty ludicrous. Good example.<br /><br />Laurence John-- "faking it" has to be a major cause of these pictures going astray (along with AD interference, deadlines and some of the other causes that have been mentioned here). With some of these artists I understand why they would paint a subject with which they were not creatively engaged (as Chuck Pyle says, "snow tires"). It's a little harder for me to understand why a "fine" artist such as Benton (who in theory had greater freedom of choice) would pick such a subject. <br /><br />vanderleun and Laurence John-- I had previously seen some of the other Coke ads you flagged, and I'm not wild about any of them (whether they are the fault of the art director or not). All of Wyeth's horizontal ads designed for Coke seem pretty hokey to me, with amateurish compositions (and Coke that looks like a drink extracted from the La Brea tar pits). His more rectangular paintings are better, but only because they took stereotypical Wyeth paintings and slapped a fancy border around them to denote nostalgia and Americana. We've seen those same Wyeth clouds in a dozen paintings (although not quite so tarted up).<br /><br />Only one commenter has found a truly excellent Wyeth Coke painting, in my opinion. Check out <br /><a href="http://s1137.photobucket.com/albums/n519/8iorek/?action=view&current=WyethCoke.jpg#%21oZZ1QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1137.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn519%2F8iorek%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DWyethCoke.jpg" rel="nofollow">this image discovered by Lawrence Roibal</a>David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-48309643401656939152011-07-12T23:01:54.243-04:002011-07-12T23:01:54.243-04:00So what in the world was he thinking when he tried...<i>So what in the world was he thinking when he tried to paint a rock n' roll party, with people dancing to "the Twist" by Chubby Checker?</i><br /><br />It's not hard for me to imagine that Benton doodled some rather abstract figures which suggested "the Twist", and the painting evolved from there rather than from some <i>a priori</i> plan. He certainly had a tendency towards a convoluted stylistic mannerism, so it's no wonder he arrived at a twist. Just a very natural expression of his artistic tendencies without regard for what anyone would think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com