tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post7030574016609635160..comments2024-03-28T05:04:06.624-04:00Comments on ILLUSTRATION ART: PASSING THE TORCHDavid Apatoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-33465272055231756592010-12-20T23:22:57.945-05:002010-12-20T23:22:57.945-05:00I am in complete awe of this man!! This makes me w...I am in complete awe of this man!! This makes me want to get back to drawing, so that I may possess the skills he had. I too am a firm believer in the notion that you must first gain your skills in traditional art before moving to other technological media. I just wish more people thought like that.Eric Noblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05872046921674512158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-2919012945556768272009-01-28T17:35:00.000-05:002009-01-28T17:35:00.000-05:00I'm glad to see that the people doing CGI art are ...I'm glad to see that the people doing CGI art are "real" artists who know how to draw and who appreciate the older work. This person's relationship with her father seems quite touching. Thank you for sharing.<BR/><BR/>AliceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-28287960860859770542009-01-27T10:27:00.000-05:002009-01-27T10:27:00.000-05:00Its the difference between Belle de Jour and when ...Its the difference between Belle de Jour and when Harry met Sally.One good film,one great film if a person cant tell which is which we might as well move into road construction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-28089488415427646692009-01-27T08:49:00.000-05:002009-01-27T08:49:00.000-05:00Thanks, anonymous. Now I better understand the di...Thanks, anonymous. Now I better understand the distinction you are making.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think it is a lot easier to classify art as good / bad, or successful / unsuccessful, rather than as Art / non-art. For one thing, attempting to define what qualifies as Art seems comparable to the French trying to legislate what words people are allowed to use (forbidding words such as "hamburger" in order to keep the language pure). People will do what they will do.<BR/><BR/>For another thing, I often find myself at odds with the prevailing definition of Art: some of what is held out as important "Art" by major auction houses and prestigious Manhattan and London art galleries strikes me as crummy junk, while some of what appears in comic strips and advertisements and digital art in films strikes me as terrific art. With my kind of attitude, it is difficult to tell somebody else that what they are doing is, by definition, not Art.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-3872193236330151392009-01-27T03:15:00.000-05:002009-01-27T03:15:00.000-05:00David,please notice my use of the capital 'A' here...David,please notice my use of the capital 'A' here,its all important.Its PRECISELY due to the misuse and devaluation of that term that I refer. We have a mindset these days where any kind of self expression is 'art' any kind of commercial application of design is 'art'.In accepting this relativism we debase the currency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-79072158014339082612009-01-26T23:13:00.000-05:002009-01-26T23:13:00.000-05:00Anonymous, I'm not clear why "you can't really cal...Anonymous, I'm not clear why "you can't really call it Art." We call almost anything art: earth works, body works, happenings, conceptual art, video art, performance art. If we can't call this art, it's apparently the only thing left on the planet that doesn't qualify. <BR/><BR/>Remember, some of the greatest art in history is about spectacular clashes-- from the Iliad to Shakespeare's Henry V. And Leonardo da Vinci loved to draw explosions and storms. My guess is that he would be mesmerized by Kim's film.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-70563311960569544052009-01-26T21:41:00.000-05:002009-01-26T21:41:00.000-05:00While I can appreciate the skill that goes into ma...While I can appreciate the skill that goes into making great specialFX you can't really call it 'Art' just as a pop promo isnt a film.Personally I think its a shame that society doesnt have room for a William A Smith in the pages of a magazine but ILM make millions out of the latest blockbuster that's forgotten about 6 months after release.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-87378450043785741362009-01-18T11:31:00.000-05:002009-01-18T11:31:00.000-05:00Many people I work with will do a "real" drawing o...Many people I work with will do a "real" drawing or painting and scan t in to manipulate. Many work directly on the computer and have no problem with it. Some work on the co puter at work, for efficiency, and on paper at home. I, and a few other of my colleagues who come from the real world, often make real textures or objects and scan them in to manipulate. For my colleagues who never did "practical" work, they find this a quaint and frightening possibility for getting textures. They don't feel comfortable "making their own"Kim Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593633705200153974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-69593098775398240002009-01-18T06:16:00.000-05:002009-01-18T06:16:00.000-05:00Computers, as a tool for art, and a way of getting...Computers, as a tool for art, and a way of getting the art out there, have certainly changed this field a great deal, and it's taken a lot of adaptation from artists to move with the times. <BR/><BR/>My friend, who had a an art school background, does photo illustrations pieced together in Photoshop, and has also worked painting textures to "surface" 3-D models. <BR/><BR/>I'm way behind that, but my ink and watercolour illustrations are always scanned for reproduction, and I've learned a lot about photoshop, etc so's I can produce reasonable scans: something the printer used to worry about, much further down the line. <BR/><BR/>At the same time, I've been writing for TV, and my art training comes in handy as a way of having a "visual imagination" that helps me write scripts. Still draw stuff all the time, and keep a sketchbook. <BR/><BR/>As a kid I used to build model planes and cars all the time, and this has helped me picture a 3-dimensional object in my mind, and draw it. <BR/><BR/>It's been a time of change, and hard to keep up with. But still very interesting for all that.Jack Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11202365155540203592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-3372585880261352672009-01-16T13:42:00.000-05:002009-01-16T13:42:00.000-05:00Anonymous (a/k/a "ignorant shit-stirrer") I have o...Anonymous (a/k/a "ignorant shit-stirrer") I have often been accused of having relationships with fecal matter myself. Welcome to the fraternity! <BR/><BR/>I am not confusing Kim with Goya (for one thing, as Slanagan points out, Goya was not a "hottie.") But I do think you underestimate the role that human taste and judgment plays in this process when you write that the computer handles everything and "you really don't have to give it a thought." <BR/><BR/>I personally have struggled to understand how art as a database of electromagnetic pulses arrayed by a computer compares with the traditional art we have known and loved. (If you go back to January 2007 on my blog, you will see that I wrote two consecutive posts, one arguing that a physical object is absolutely essential to art, and the other arguing that it is absolutely irrelevant. Both were sincere. My answer changes, depending on which side of the bed I woke up on.) <BR/><BR/>But I do know this: etching was a relatively new technology when Rembrandt seized on it as a way of selling multiple copies of his drawings to the public. Photography was a relatively new technology when Degas and Lautrec employed it as a way of enhancing their work. And we've talked above about how Howard Pyle "caught the wave" of new printing technology. It seems to me that some of our greatest artists were the ones who didn't shrink from new inventions but who instead embraced them with curiosity and enthusiasm. <BR/><BR/>I can't tell you whether computer art is a tool of the devil, but it seems to me that the results are undeniably dazzling. You say this is not your idea of what an artist would do. Are you talking about the process an artist is supposed to follow to create art or about the impact of the end product on a viewer? <BR/><BR/>Lastly, I should tell you that I don't know Kim Smith well at all-- I only met her once for a couple of hours, but in that short time she hauled out the battered sketchbook that all "real" artists carry with them. She had filled it with sensitive and graceful pencil sketches of cats, elephants, giraffes and other subjects that a conventional artist might compile in an honest search for information about the way things look. I think there is real continuity between the kind of art you would accept as valid and the images on Kim's video.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-67495495039269813062009-01-16T13:05:00.000-05:002009-01-16T13:05:00.000-05:00Piya, I'm actually trying to encourage more of my ...Piya, I'm actually trying to encourage more of my colleagues to weigh in on this discussion. I'm so glad people from the movie industry look at David's blog. It is an invaluable resource, and he knows SO much about the subject.Kim Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593633705200153974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-80418271697224547982009-01-16T12:45:00.000-05:002009-01-16T12:45:00.000-05:00This is such a wonderfully eloquent post, David. A...This is such a wonderfully eloquent post, David. <BR/><BR/>As a production artist, I've been chewed out a few times by 'old school' artists who believe digital artists are 'cop outs.' I regret that I probably will never master the traditional media, and I do miss the smell of oils and having a painting on canvas to bring home after art class. At the same time, the reality is that I HAD to learn digital painting in order to stay relevant and put food on the table. Art is my love, but to make it a viable way of life, here and now in the 21st century, there HAS to be compromise. <BR/><BR/>Thank you for this story of Kim Smith. I feel like I'm in very good company now.Piyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11954206497878502968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-57009320512015703812009-01-16T12:15:00.000-05:002009-01-16T12:15:00.000-05:00Anonymous, I really don't get what you are so pric...Anonymous, I really don't get what you are so prickly about, but I do thank you, and I truly mean this, for inspiring a dialogue. That's what blogs are about. I say the next statement with a smile, but you sound like someone who was turned down for a job in the movie business, even though I'm certain that never happened.<BR/><BR/>I'm definitely not Goya (you might be the only one who thought there was that comparison, nor should the movies I work on be compared to Goya. I'm just an artist who found a good job and enjoy and work with a lot of people who are better than I am and deserve to have lovers of illustration know about them. Isn't that why you read this blog, to learn about new stuff?Kim Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593633705200153974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-53014929603498011182009-01-16T11:28:00.000-05:002009-01-16T11:28:00.000-05:00ok, I apologize for having been such an ignorant "...ok, I apologize for having been such an ignorant "shit-stirrer", Kim's textures are doubtlessly equal to the work of Goya and the whole thing is nothing less than a "modern-day Renaissance", you guys really opened my eyes!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-22747801894798740232009-01-16T10:54:00.000-05:002009-01-16T10:54:00.000-05:00Rob -- "It makes me wish that I were starting over...Rob -- "It makes me wish that I were starting over again." I have met a lot of highly successful people-- presidents, billionaires, nobel prize winners-- and I think virtually all of them would like to start over again with nothing. No money, no fame,no power and no guarantees of success. They want the exhilaration of scratching and clawing to survive, the stimulation provided by a blank page in life, the chance to do fundamental things with all of the fresh opportunities that new technologies and developments present. So the question is, why don't young artists who are just starting out, looking ahead to a career filled with risk and uncertainty, appreciate the value of wide open opportunity?David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-83925970380061725772009-01-16T10:47:00.000-05:002009-01-16T10:47:00.000-05:00Y'all are very flattering....Th Matthew and Ali, w...Y'all are very flattering....<BR/><BR/>Th Matthew and Ali, who have such kinds words and also great questions...<BR/><BR/>I don't miss brush on canvas because I still do that! I'm quite the traditionalist, because I love the feel of oil paint in particular on canvas. I also found some time last summer to work with some of the great printers at Crown Point press and do a couple new little prints which incorporated idea I got while working in the film business. These prints are pretty abstract and remind one most of Russian Constructivist work, but with a LOT more texture. Also, I was experimenting with the use of tape texture in printmaking! I have held the crown as the queen of masking tape (as in masking tape, creating some of the Enterprise surface textures) We accumulated used-tape ball about 3 feet in diameter just from two passes of paint, to give to the producer. The point is, as I said before, you can't use these materials without thinking of the possibilities. In fact, one of the master printers at Crown Point and I got into an in-depth discussion about types of tape, as it's something they occasionally use for frisket, and we actually communicated later about tape! Funny.<BR/><BR/>I have made some of my favorite bronzes from leftover plywood "drops" from plane model kits, and been inspired by the linework on plans for architectural models.<BR/><BR/>ImageMovers, where I work, has weekly figure drawing and figurative sculpture classes where we augment our understanding of the body. This is a priceless perk of the job. As we go on, we may have "kit-bashing" classes, where people take random model-kit parts and build vehicles and machines to teach them how, even in a fictitious object, it still has to make sense from a structural point of view. Teaches people to look closely at the objects around them in the real world to see how they are made and how they move.<BR/><BR/>I've learned TONS from what I do, and continue to learn. Also, I am much more productive when I do my own work, because I'm used to being under pressure. The real snag for me is time. Movie-making is tremendously time-consuming. I'm looking forward to retirement! Some day.Kim Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593633705200153974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-29370036412090189392009-01-16T05:09:00.000-05:002009-01-16T05:09:00.000-05:00Kim, since you know what it is like to work in bot...Kim, since you know what it is like to work in both worlds, don't you miss the tactile feeling of the brush against a canvas? Does your wrist work the same way when painting digitallyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-62378621096035032282009-01-16T02:40:00.000-05:002009-01-16T02:40:00.000-05:00I am impressed by the sheer skill someone like Kim...I am impressed by the sheer skill someone like Kim has (and to be able to decide how to make a texture for a 3d computer model certainly takes imagination as well). But I keep thinking of someone like Rembrandt, and his series of self portraits. If you look at his earlier self portraits, while they are certianly better then anything i can do, there is a certian lack of something in them compared to his later ones, and it goes way beyond his technical skill (though that is certainly part of it, as his later ones are done with an almost zen like confidence). Kim might be able to improve her technique, but will she improve beyond that? Is there room in her art for the almost spiritual type of improvement that comes from not just struggling with technique but with all of life (and I don't mean in the films she is working in as that isn't likely, but in what she creates outside of hollywood film)?<BR/><BR/>sorry if this question is answered on the film, I just haven't been able to watch it yetMatthew Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06954050440829792514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-27423971449097966662009-01-16T00:54:00.000-05:002009-01-16T00:54:00.000-05:00First, Kim, thanks for sharing so much with strang...First, Kim, thanks for sharing so much with strangers (some stranger than others). I very much appreciate the artistic sensibilities you bring to the new medium. As is apparent to anyone who's been in the business of art making, those artistic sensibilities are not different from artists of the past. The non-artist gets overly-involved in the subject matter and hasn't the basis for understanding the eternal verities of making art. You and many of your colleagues bring them to this new medium.<BR/><BR/>I'm old enough to remember similar cries of 'foul' arising when acrylics were introduced. Of course those people mattered very little to the art scene.<BR/><BR/>Again, thanks for sharing your exciting work with us. It makes me wish that I were starting over again.Rob Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587811799010051018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-87426186941733533822009-01-15T23:37:00.000-05:002009-01-15T23:37:00.000-05:00Wow. Great post, David, and it's great that Kim ha...Wow. Great post, David, and it's great that Kim has taken such an active part in it...must make you feel great, as well!<BR/><BR/>For a few years, I worked as a texture artist on a popular online multiplayer game, Everquest, and I can say that it does take talent, experience, imagination and lots of time to make textures work (that is, be as ealistic as they need to be). And this was nothing like the level of Kim's work. The Anonymous that harps on all this being the act of a computer does not know what the hell he is talking about.<BR/><BR/>Once again, we see the anonymity of the internet giving license to feebs, geeks, and shit-stirrers.<BR/><BR/>But hey, let's remain positive. Great to see Kim giving props to the illustrators of the past. Of course, having a ringside seat to the history of that medium aided in her appreciation. Thanks for taking part in this constantly perceptive and incisive blog, Kim!<BR/><BR/>Ken Meyer Jr.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-52899771458326676302009-01-15T12:02:00.000-05:002009-01-15T12:02:00.000-05:00Painting a helicopter on a computer is pretty much...Painting a helicopter on a computer is pretty much identical to painting a model helicopter for traditional motion-control in terms of the detail you put into the various qualities of a surface. But achieving those results on a computer is far more involved. When painting a "real" miniature, I must faux dirt, reflections surface detail and blemishes in order to give the miniature "scale"; the look a full-sized helicopter or whatever, would have. I must do the same on a virtual model, and often resort to photographing Kim-painted scratches and dirt I've painted in the 3D world and applying them to a virtual surface.<BR/><BR/> Without getting too technical, I'd give you the example of the transformer Bumblebee. I painted the first 90% or so of that virtual model for Transformers. There wound up being about 16 "effects" created for the surface of that model, which would not only give it color, but specular highlights, texture, transparency and many more qualities harder to explain here. I believe the total pieces of geometry for Bumblebee was upward of 4500 pieces, each of which probably averaged about ten appropriate effects. Some of the more interior geometry just had "shaders" attached, which give a basic color and surface quality to a geometry, and only because they would not be well-seen. Shaders are used often for work which does not require me, a texture-painter, and I stay more than busy all the time painting. By the way, Bumblebee is my favorite virtual model I ever painted, though it was an extremely painful process.<BR/><BR/>Painting a character or animal can even be more complex, because there are all the translucent light-scattering issues that tissue has. I don't know what the record is for "effects" for a character, but upwards of 30 would probably not be too unusual for a character seen very closely. Davy Jones, from Pirates of the Caribbean, was a tour de force of CGI artistry. Even his eyes are CG, and they are wonderfully realistic.<BR/><BR/>Those of us who come from a "practical" background do still question the use of computer models over traditional models in many cases, due to the complexity of the computer graphic process. But the technology does not improve if no one does it, so... off we gallop. It's the nature of humans.<BR/><BR/>Rob talks of a new Golden Age of Illustration, and I've often thought that we are actually experiencing a kind of modern-day Renaissance in the search for a beautiful computer-generated object. We are at the point where the artists and the quantifiers have to get together and discover how light is reflected in the real world etc etc....<BR/><BR/>I have done a number of talks with my partner John at packed museum venues about movie magic. I ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS speak to the audience about the importance of studying painting and sculpture; that these skills not be forgotten. Too few people think that if they know the software, they can do the work. The software and the computers are just tools.Kim Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593633705200153974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-69460714956337385142009-01-15T11:05:00.000-05:002009-01-15T11:05:00.000-05:00David, do you really know how all this floating an...David, do you really know how all this floating and swooping and light catching is done? Basically you create a model of, say, a helicopter, plus a model of the surrounding, you define the light - and thats pretty much it, the rest is done by a computer / lots of nice little programs which become more and more refined and which you can buy. If the computer is told what material the helicopter is made of, it will create all the beautiful reflections, will do all the light catching for you, you really don't have to give it a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-11079814164718621402009-01-15T11:03:00.000-05:002009-01-15T11:03:00.000-05:00Well, since I made the switch to doing computer gr...Well, since I made the switch to doing computer graphics over six years ago, I joined the legions of people who can, yes, get a job in this industry. My colleagues who are in the traditional model-making end have a much harder time now, and it's extremely hard if not impossible breaking into traditional model-making in the movie business.<BR/><BR/>My current job at ImageMovers Digital actually entails doing some hands-on concept model-making after my 9-hour CGI day is done, when preparing for a meeting with the director of a new movie. These models are mostly foamcore and card, with more detailed models being developed as decisions get made. Since we are a motion-capture animated feature house, these models of the environments allow the director to plan shots in advance, with removable walls. First-rate sculptors also work in the modelshop (which is part of the Art Department) creating maquettes of the characters in varous stages of design.<BR/><BR/>Making these all-white models has it's own charm. My mind starts spinning about a movie entirely utilizing all-white miniatures! As I said earlier, there are zillions of creative by-products of this work.Kim Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593633705200153974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-88161781015319900502009-01-15T10:36:00.000-05:002009-01-15T10:36:00.000-05:00If Kim Smith is still reading this, can an artist ...If Kim Smith is still reading this, can an artist still get a job in movies with her background, or is it different now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12189014.post-9498519413014026322009-01-15T03:24:00.000-05:002009-01-15T03:24:00.000-05:00Luckily, I'm quite sure of my position, having tho...Luckily, I'm quite sure of my position, having thought quite a bit about how I'm inspired by some of the by-products of what I do for a living. One can't work with all the materials I have and not be inspired by the possibilities. One would have to be completely limited to see this work as being only a series of gratuitous explosions.Kim Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11170412458239829562noreply@blogger.com